Son got F on AP Calculus Junior year??

Parent Cafe
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<p>I’m suggesting a gap year in large part because I think a F in pre-calc is really going to hurt. I think the best way to reduce its impact is to retake the course and get a better grade. Since it seems from the first post that that won’t happen until the second semester of senior year, I think it may make sense to postpone applying until the grade for the retake comes in. </p>

<p>Of course, he can apply, see where the chips fall and then decide to take the gap year. If he chooses this course of action, I’d suggest holding off on at least one of the universities which is among his top choices, rather than applying to all of them and then reapplying to schools which rejected him the fisrt time around.</p>

<p>Finally, since nobody else has mentioned it, I would suggest that the OP’s son consider the junior college option. If he’s willing to do so, I’d find out which junior colleges, if any, have articulation agreements with universities he’s interested in and apply to them. Again, I’m not suggesting he ONLY apply to junior colleges; I’m suggesting that he have a fall back worse case scenario game plan just in case he doesn’t get into a 4 year college he would like to attend. </p>

<p>As I’ve already suggested, if he can learn the material in time to take the SATIImath2c before decisions will be made, that too would help–assuming he can get a good score.</p>

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<p>ALEKS is a very fine program that our local high school has been trying out but probably won’t be able to fully implement it because of budget cuts.</p>

<p>But in many ways, it (and online courses) is going to be like the teacher’s way of teaching. You will be expected to read the material, examine the example problems worked out, do your own problems and check to see if your answers are correct. The parents complained that the teacher using the ALEKS program was refusing to teach because the kids would give it a quick try, not get it and then come to the teacher to get help. Her answer was to try it again…and again.</p>

<p>It seems like the way a lot of higher end math in high school is being taught lately is the --read the book and learn it yourself/we’ll spend class time on problems you couldn’t figure out–method. My younger D had two math teachers who basically taught like this–honors pre-calc and calculus. Teachers are trying to wean the kids away from being spoon-fed math…the “I can’t do it unless you tell me how to do it first.” If you’re not used to learning things by yourself, this method can be a rude awakening. Looks like a lot of kids have been rudely awakened. But the skill and confidence developed will put them miles ahead in college.</p>

<p>I would take the class again, this time with a weekly tutor (or maybe one that comes twice a week) to do more explaining as needed.</p>

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<p>I think it is a teacher’s obligation to make sure that all opportunities are exhausted to reach every student. I question whether someone who has weak math skills, or math anxiety, can just learn the material themselves, and then go in to the classroom for help on problem questions. Also, some kids learn better by listening. I have one like that. If you give him a book and ask him to learn, he might do OK. But if he sits in on a lecture, he can grasp all that is taught and without taking notes will commit it to memory. Self-teaching for a kid like this only works well with online or computer teaching tools that have sound.</p>

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<p>Update: </p>

<p>Spoke with school GC and they would let him do an On-Line class through a state virtual HS site and get full credit even with an Honors version of the class. He is going to take that starting now and hopefully finish in time to still have that on his transcripts and possible bump in GPA for the 1st semester. Not sure why she never mentioned before???</p>

<p>I also spoke with UW Madison since that is his top choice and the admin person there said this was the best possible scenario considering the F. Overall she said the F would play a part in the possible acceptance, of course, but the mentioning the specifics in his essay and the fact that he made it up with hopefully a good score could offset much of that. I didn’t expect any commitment but I was pleased with her tone and apparent honesty. She also said that we should apply a little later so the new score is on his transcripts. </p>

<p>Of course I’m being optimistic in all this. He has to do the work successfully but his attitude and maturity have both improved so much that I know he will try his best. Thanks for the positive recommendations that came.</p>

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<p>That is wonderful. I’m so glad you came back to let us know. </p>

<p>My D did some some classes through Virtual Virginia and also Virtual High School that she really enjoyed. I hope your son is successful. I’m a firm believer in where there’s a will, there’s a way.</p>

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<p>May I suggest getting him a Precalc tutor? This will keep him on task knowing he has a weekly meeting as well as support through the difficult concepts. Best of luck to your son.</p>

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<p>Yes, thanks for coming back to report and best of luck to your S.</p>

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<p>This sounds like an excellent plan. I agree with the other posters that getting a tutor right from the beginning would be a very good idea. My personal experience has been that hearing math from more than one person really helps me to fully comprehend the material.</p>

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<p>Don’t give up hope and it sounds like you are moving in the right direction. There were so many great suggestions here and I am sure it will work itself out. Be prepared to have some backup plans just in case.</p>

<p>We have some personal experience in this department as my DD nearly failed her AP Calc class. She squeaked by and barely passed. It was the one black spot in her entire HS career and we were devasted thinking that she would not have a chance to get accepted to the college of her choice. HOWEVER, the university did consider her other scores, work, community service, school activities and set up a personal interview with her since she applied early on a rolling admissions. After meeting her, talking with her, they decided to accept her inspite of her bad grade.</p>

<p>Her first semester she made Dean’s List and one of her courses as MATH!!! Just goes to show you, you can never know what might happen.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>We are already looking for a tutor and set up an on line math tutor site that he is playing with and practicing now. We have some back up plans for sure with being firmly in the middle of the Big Ten Conference area and him wanting to attend one of them, there are lots of choices. </p>

<p>My S has a twin sister and she is looking local liberal arts colleges that are small. He is going to apply to one really early, like now, and they have a quick turn around of about 14 days to find out on some applications. This school has very good academics and an excellent pre-med program. It wouldn’t be a bad fit because of the small class size etc and then a transfer in a year or two if he wants a bigger school. Much better then CC or taking a year off.</p>

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<p>PERFECT. Now to make sure your S really nails this class!</p>

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<p>My previous posts were written based on the assumption that your S could not retake the course he failed until second semester. That said…</p>

<p>I’m not sure you’re right that it would be better to go to the LAC. </p>

<p>I’ve no idea of what your son is like other than what you’ve posted here. But from his list of colleges, it didn’t “sound” as if a small LAC was what he wanted. </p>

<p>Now, I don’t know specifics, but in a lot of cases, it’s one heck of a lot easier to transfer into a flagship state U from a CC with which it has an articulation agreement than it is from an OOS LAC. That’s how flagship state Us work. </p>

<p>Moreover, if you go to a CC with an articulation agreement, you can choose ONLY courses for which you will get full credit when you transfer. If you go to a LAC, it’s probable that not all of the course credits will transfer. </p>

<p>Again, plese understand that I mean well and I am not trying to tell you what you should do. I’m only suggesting that it’s POSSIBLE that his odds of transferring into the big state U of his dreams would be better from a CC with an articulation agreement with his dream school than they would be from a private LAC. </p>

<p>Just something to think about…</p>

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<p>My S has been playing in a rock band throughout HS. He is a very talented musician and loves to perform. This has been a major plus and a major negative the last year or so. For now, we are holding off on the “touring” and focusing on getting all this done. He realizes this and has embraced it.</p>

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<p>Jonri, you may be right about the LAC. I’m not familiar with all the terminology you are presenting me so I am trying to absorb it all. I’m really anxious to see what this LAC does with him because I will feel more at ease if he has a YES in the bank.</p>

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<p>Oh, I definitely agree! Getting a thick envelope would really help! I’m certainly not trying to say anything to the contrary. </p>

<p>Let me try to explain. Large public universities are under a great deal of pressure to accept transfer students from the in-state public CCs. Most of the students who attend these CCs plan on transferring to a public U in their state. So, community colleges in that state enter into articulation agreements with the 4 year public universities. These agreements state which courses will be accepted for course credit and the standards which must be met to get that credit. In at least some cases, particularly in math and science, the CCs will give the same exams on the same day as the 4 year university. CCs offer lots of other courses, which aren’t accepted, but before you take the course, you know whether it will be accepted and what standard you have to meet. So, you might learn that art history 101 can be transferred as long as you get at least a B- in the course, and it can be used to satisfy a general ed requirement. </p>

<p>Some 4 year public Us accept lots of transfers, but 90% may be from the same state’s public CCs. It can be one heck of a lot harder to transfer in from an OOS private LAC. In Shrinkrap’s recent thread, Calif posters said that it would be virtually impossible for her D to transfer from Duke to UCal, because UCal uses almost all its transfer slots for CC students. </p>

<p>So. lets say your S wanted to transfer to UIll-UC. He went to a local public CC. He then transferred, and having been careful, all courses transferred. </p>

<p>If he chose to go to the local LAC, he might find that his odds of getting into UIll were actually worse than they would have been from a CC–that depends on the state policy. Additionally, he might find that the art history 101 course he took won’t transfer because it covered different material than the one at 4 year public U or it met twice a week and the one at UIll meets 3 times a week, so, it’s not enough credits to satisfy the gen ed requirement. </p>

<p>I sincerely hope that your son gets into the kind of college he wants. I’m just saying that if his only option is the LAC–and you don’t yet know whether that is an option–he may well be in worse shape if his ultimate plan is to transfer to a big state U. </p>

<p>I do NOT claim that I have a CLUE as to the policies of the public Us in your state or the others your S is interested in. I’m just saying the choice may not be as clear as you think it is.</p>

<p>BTW, many private Us also have articulation agreements with nearby CCs.</p>

<p>PS. It looks like U-Ill has articulation agreements with what may be local private schools. Maybe some of these are 4 year colleges–no clue. Anyway, this link should give you an idea of what I’ve talking about <a href=“http://admissions.illinois.edu/apply/requirements_articulation.html[/url]”>http://admissions.illinois.edu/apply/requirements_articulation.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>For the online class, does he have to use the Ilinois Virtual School, or will they allow him to use the K-12 Chicago Virtual School (you can live anywhere in the Chicago city limits to “attend”, but I am not sure if you can take one class only)? I am only asking because K12.com is such an awesome site.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.ivhs.org/index.learn?bhcp=1[/url]”>http://www.ivhs.org/index.learn?bhcp=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>or</p>

<p>[Chicago</a> Virtual Charter School](<a href=“http://www.k12.com/cvcs/]Chicago”>K12: Online Public School - Online Learning Programs)</p>

<p>Update…I am reading more on the K12 site and see that it is for grades 9-11, and cannot be attended while enrolled at another public school. So many rules! I guess they probably mean the Illinois Virtual School.</p>

<p>Congrats on finding a good solution! Your son owes you a lot of thanks. Don’t hold your breath, of course. All this a good lesson for him. When we mess up, we problem solve (and we never rely on solely “experts”, like public school guidance counselors, to be our only advocates). :)</p>