Sophomore Daughter

Parent Cafe
1

<p>My D is starting sophomore year at a private high school this fall. Currently in freshman year she has a 4.148 W GPA. Top 1% in school’s PLAN test
Core Classes taken
Hon Bio
Hon Geometry
Ec for freshman year
Science Olympiad
Chem Club
Young Astronaut’s day at NASA
Member of Student council
High School Gymnastics team (In Gymnastics since 2nd grade)
Volunteer at local hospital
This summer will be shadowing an Emergency Medicine doctor.</p>

<p>Classes that will be taken in sophomore year
Hon Chem
Hon Wrld His
Hon Algebra 2
Psychology
American Literature
Plans on continuing the same Ecs</p>

<p>Questions for any and all
She wants to go into medicine, shooting for top tier schools Brown, NW etc
Interested in BS/MD programs.
How can she increase her chances of getting into the top tier schools?
Advice needed on getting into internships or starting something unique at school or community level.</p>

2

<p>Sounds to me like she is, in general, on the right track. Make every effort to be sure the cake (grades and SATs) is turning out okay before worrying too much about the frosting. Keep looking for involvement and leadership (assuming it is a genuine interest of hers and not done just to “look good”) in scientific/medical type activities.</p>

3

<p>Yes, it is her interest to go into medicine. We are aware of the uphill task to get into top tier schools. Just don’t want to find that we could have improved her chances by doing something that would distinguish her from the rest of the applicants.</p>

<p>We were looking at how to get internships and or start some chapter at her school (thinking on American Red Cross). You mentioned leadership, can you give me some ideas</p>

4

<p>What I find irksome is doing everything to “get into the top tier school”, not because doing something is fun, kind, for a good cause, to help people, to become a more well rounded person to become a well rounded person, not to impress others.</p>

<p>If you go into something to look better than others to admin people, the point of being the best person you can be is lost because it is being done to compete with others, not because it is the right thing to do.</p>

<p>I say this because, lets say, it doesn’t work out with the colleges, than if you have done things just for that, then it will feel like it was all wasted. If you do it because you really want to, well, then no matter what happens with regards to admissions, the student will not be as devistated because the last four years will have not been for nothing.</p>

<p>So, don’t just focus on the end goal. Focus on the know, the people she could help with the Red Cross Group, not just, well, I was President. Oh yeah, the people we helped, well…</p>

5

<p>ya this bothered me too- I know parents mean well but when a student wants to go into law- medicine- broadcasting- whatever-
WHY do they want to do that?
Just keep the focus closer and facilitate opportunities for them to do the things that drives their interest-don’t worry about what the “top” schools are looking for.
If she takes challenging college prep classes, participates in activities she enjoys and has a range of colleges in mind from extra competitive to more reasonable- then she will do great.
I didn’t attend college- & doing things to “look good on an app” was not even in my head. Thank the goddess. :slight_smile:
However my daughter was admitted to all the schools she applied and is currently a senior in the sciences at a fairly academic school.
None of her summer or Ec activities were academic in focus.( well except for CTY- hush but she didn’t even mention that)
I think it is refreshing for admission officers to see students who are doing something they want to do- not just because it looks good.
That is what will stick out.
Passion shows.</p>

6

<p>If you would read her Ecs, you will see gymnastics, science olympiad. She is doing these not to impress anyone, but because she enjoys it. She is genuinely interested in these things. Doing things because she enjoys is fine, but in the tough world of college admissions, stacking herself against brilliant candidates, she also needs stuff that makes her unique. </p>

<p>Wanting to get into top tier schools is a good ambition, and I intend to encourage her in every way.</p>

7

<p>I think looking at rigourous colleges is appropriate for someone who is interested in medical school/sciences.
Looks like she is on the right track :slight_smile:
But as far as “stuff that makes her unique”- I sure couldn’t help you with that- I don’t know her- but if she pursues her passions that will make her stand out as much as anything. There are tons of kids who have all the right awards and courses who aren’t admitted to the most competitive schools. What I would do is spend energy finding great schools- rather than stress out over what she can do to stand out among all the other students with 15 Ap classes.
One thing that does seem to make a difference at some schools is not needing any aid. When tuition is upward of $40,000- to not need help- will make her stand out a lot!</p>

8

<p>No need to defend yourself Spartacus, the minute I read your post I knew what was coming. If a top school is your goal, pursue it with zeal! Read through these boards, especially college threads where accepted students posted their info.</p>

9

<p>The point we are making is not to do something JUST TO IMPRESS…that will accomplish little. </p>

<p>And, if you are only focused on the TOP TIER< whatever that may be, you really need to expand the hunt. No matter how brilliant, perfect, well rounded or lobsided a student is, its the luck of the draw after awhile.</p>

<p>One thousand brilliant, perfect students who have all started clubs, done sports, done ECs, and 200 spots.</p>

<p>So if too much is done to impress people, who are actually pretty used to seeing exceptional kids, well, it can make for much frustration. Read on this site the number of kids who didn’t get in to the “top Tier” who did everything right.</p>

<p>As a dad, your job is to encourage, push, and support, but to also show your child ALL the options. And be realisitic.</p>

<p>So go for the clubs, but a different mind set is what will help make the next three years happier ones. And when the results come in, I do hope D gets into all the colleges she is aiming for, its just that we have seen that is very difficult, so having other options is important. </p>

<p>My D also did sports- soccer from age 3- after she did it for one year in highschool, she found other passions and followed them. She is happy, her grades show it, the teachers see that passion and drive, and, sure it will help for college, but that is NOT the goal. Its important that doing for now is taken into account as much as is doing to impress</p>

10

<p>There are many highly paid college counselors who would scoff at the idea you can’t impact college admissions. Many, many kids have successfully created resumes that impress. Reality is good, but it’s real that there is much you can do to help your child get where she wants to go. Hopefully she won’t tie her self esteem up with a few schools. Each to his own, however.</p>

11

<p>To do stuff just to impress is a joke. While it may work, it doesn’[t create a well rounded happy person. I have seen it. kids doing stuff for too long because it will look good.</p>

<p>My Ds friend is an Irish Dancer. She hates it, but she keeps doing it because after so many years, she figures it will look good for colleges. She has shin splints, her hair is receding due to the tight pony tails and she misses out on many other things. But mom says, well, after ten years, lets just keep at it and you can’t quit. So one unhappy kid with something on her resume to impress. </p>

<p>And yes, you can do things to impress the admin people, but if that is the ONLY reason for doing something, I find that kind of gross.</p>

12

<p>Spartacus - I think you may want to shift your focus just a little. Instead of a focus on what might make your D seem “unique,” I think what you really are looking for - as we all are/were in the application process - is what might help our S/D “stand out.”</p>

<p>Now, standing out could be due to accomplishing something unique. But, as your question recognizes, it’s hard to come up with that unique activity, if it isn’t something the person is already engaged in. I have seen kids who suddenly take up an activity, start a charitable or eco-friendly program etc. in the last 2-3 years of high school. Sometimes it looks patently done to impress (even if it isn’t), comes across as shallow and has the opposite effect of what you want.</p>

<p>But “standing out” can come from how you work the application to present what you already are. This is where this cc Board can really help you. You will see a lot of threads on this Board about what to emphasize in terms of ec’s, awards, etc. Ditto about who to ask for recs and how to make sure the recs are effective. But probably the most important part of the application to achieve “stand out” status is the essay and how it relates to all the rest of the package.</p>

<p>I think you will spend your time most effectively helping D understand “who” she wants the adcom to see. Our GC advised, we want the application to show you “as you are on your best day.” You want her app to show her “best self”. There is an art to that.</p>

<p>I, personally, would nix the idea of finding a standout activity as I think it could backfire on you. Encourage her to go as deeply as she can into those areas she’s already been interested in and active. If there’s something she hasn’t tried (after all, she’s only a sophomore) and really wants to, encourage her to do that. From these “naturally chosen” activities will come something that will help her stand out.</p>

13

<p>so much better put than I jmmom
and yes the Irish dancing thing is sad
I suppose I should have encouraged my daughter when pacific northwest ballet wanted her to perform in the Nutcracker & recognized that “here was a hook!”
However- all I could think about was that they wanted her to miss half a day of school for weeks at a time and stay for the whole rehersal even when her scenes were over.
(another thing I was thinking about was the poor soul that was going to have to schlep her back and forth from school to rehersal in a rainy Seattle winter)
Plus- when I saw these high school girls- who were developing nice normal bodies, grab their thighs and moan" look at that! just look at that!", like they were candidates for liposuction, all I could think of was getting my daughter out of there before she was ruined for life
( no offense to girls who really get a charge out of it - really-)</p>

14

<p>getting back to the basics, i don’t see a language other than English amongst the OP’s childs classes.Wouldn’t a kid looking at selective college admits need to present a foreign language sequence?</p>

15

<p>Good point, cathymee. Spartacus - it looks like you haven’t listed D’s complete Freshman courseload. Soph looks like it has no foreign language. You should go to the websites of each college on your D’s current list - each will list recommended hs preparation. Most will want 3-4 years of foreign language, 4 yrs English, etc.</p>

16

<p>assuming she hasn’t taken a foreign lang before I might recommend French or German- at least those are the foreign languages my daughters college strongly recommends for science majors ( don’t really know why as even those researchers at Max Planck speak english)
standard core courses are 4 years English-History-Math-Lab science-Foreign Lang. Also have to fit in there someplace arts/music/drama-
I don’t know how kids squeeze it all in - but then they don’t need their beauty rest :)</p>

17

<p>Spartacus: your D might look into any volunteering that shows compassion and care for others: Special Olympics, nursing home, hospice, Planned Parenthood, tutoring, work with the homeless, Habitat for Humanity. Any kind of work for others is valuable in experience gained in working with other people who aren’t just like yourself. She needs to find something that really interests her, and that may lead to some sort of leadership position within that group or program. She might be able to think of some small volunteer effort or group that she could start or spearhead at her high school, or some way to involve students from her school with the organization she is working with. </p>

<p>Another idea is a part-time job in some sort of health care or social service capacity, perhaps in the summers to come. All of these are useful experiences to have in developing as a compassionate young adult, and that is something medical school admission committees look for–a long-term commitment to helping others. </p>

<p>It is very early to be thinking about internships and shadowing doctors as a soph in high school. There are years ahead to do those things in college. Helping other people, developing people skills, growing as a person–those are better to focus on in high school.</p>

18

<p>Spartacus, Your daughter sounds like a great kid with a lot of potential. I applaud you for your involvement in getting her started on the right track to fulfill her potential. </p>

<p>The first thing I would recommend is to keep your own mind – and subsequently your daughter’s mind – open to a wide range of colleges. I’m sorry to add to the litany of lectures (hey, you asked for advice, not a sermon :)) but I think you can’t hear often enough how important it is to build your college list from the bottom up. Aim high, but love your safety. Sometimes if kids start thinking about elites very early on it’s hard to dislodge them later, so it’s best to have a broad focus. If your daughter’s goal is ultimately medical school, there are many, many routes to that objective. Be open to alternatives. Kids change so much as they mature, even after they’re in college, that it’s better not to focus on a particular college or a particular program just yet.</p>

<p>I see the application process as divided into three equally important categories:
Objective statistic based information, like scores, GPA, rank
Subjective information like essays, recommendations, ECs, Talent, diversity status
Intangibles, like character, confidence, creativity, drive, leadership</p>

<p>The first two are fairly easy to identify and pursue. The third is difficult to get your arms around, but can be the deal maker that pushes an applicant into the accept pile. I need to put a “just a theory” sticker on this, but I think that the smaller colleges put a lot of focus on the intangibles more so than the big universities because it’s so important for their students to work and play well together. </p>

<p>Colleges – especially super selectives – are looking for interesting kids that do interesting things. Now, to define “interesting” is not so easy, but I would say that any thing that consumes the student’s attention can fall into this category. Activities that are sincerely fun and fulfilling and activities that appeal to the admissions committee are not mutually exclusive. The ECs needn’t be unique (the adcom’s have seen them all), they just need to be compelling and if possible showcase some of those intangibles. If a student pursues a pasttime or two with passion and focus because s/he wants to, then most likely the adcom will appreciate his/her energy. </p>

<p>Your daughter’s list of ECs and interests is good. She doesn’t need to add or diversify, just continue and intensify. Don’t worry, when it comes time to write that application, she’ll stand out. How’s an ambulance chasing gymnast for a handle?</p>

19

<p>This is how I would go about finding something unique: I would tailor it to my environment. It seems to me that you’re approaching it from the wrong end. People in cyberspace don’t know your unique setting - state, school culture, etc. and the issues that are roiling around you. Read your local newspapers and get a sense (if you don’t already know - I think you do, you just haven’t recognized it) of what issues are important locally and then see if you can’t come up with a way for a high schooler to address some aspect of it. I hope this makes sense -what I’m saying is that you have the answer around you.</p>

20

<p>Spartacus: another issue you may not have gotten to yet re medical school in the future is that you do not HAVE to go to a top school. There is one theory that it’s better to get top grades at a lesser school (plus a solid undergrad education, of course) because medical school admittance is very GPA-driven. I realize that this is way down the road for you, but I have been reading a lot on the subject b/c my D is a college junior hoping to attend medical school. Over on the pre-med discussion board there is an active poster who espouses this theory–go to a lesser school where you can get great grades and stand out.</p>

<p>Another theory is that grads of top tier colleges WITH HIGH GPAs have a higher admittance rate to med school, especially more prestigious private med schools. But beware, some of the top colleges do not ALLOW all their grads to apply to med school–they select who gets to apply to increase their percentages of accepted graduates. Some things to think about…</p>

<p>The moderator on the medical school discussion board says if a student has above a 3.5 GPA, good MCAT score, plus good recommendations and ECs, then that student will most likely get into med school. It doesn’t have to be an Ivy for undergrad.</p>

<p>And one anecdotal item: our former neighbor went to a smaller state college here (respected in our state but unknown outside the state) and didn’t get in to our one state med school. She did, however, get in at Washington University in St. Louis, which is supposed to be the hardest med school to get into. Med school has its own paths…</p>