Southern family etiquette?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>This may be long…sorry but I can’t sleep and need to get this out of my system and none of my Yankee friends/family will relate! The situation involves my former H, who lives about 1,000 miles away from me and our 2 late teen-aged kids, and his southern matriarchal family. I have tried my level best for the last 13 years to make sure my kids maintain a relationship with their southern family, and especially with their dad, but my ex-MIL and her sisters have started doing this “it’s best if the kids don’t come” thing every year which is very weird and unsettling to me and the kids. They usually fly down in June and spend 10-14 days there and that is the ONLY time they see their father and the rest of their family unless I send him a plane ticket for Christmas (but then I have to put up with him too, so that’s a rare occurrence now that the kids are older!). My kids are very busy with sports, summer programs, work, etc. and it’s always been difficult to schedule the summer trip but my ex and I have managed to coordinate well for the 10 years he’s been living there. My kids have never stayed with their grandmother (although the other OOS grandchildren do spend a week or two with her every summer) or any other extended family, although they see them all frequently during their visits and try to keep up a relationship via email/phone calls.</p>

<p>My ex also has 3 older kids from his first marriage who live in the same city where he resides, as do most of his extended family (mom, aunts, cousins). His family is very tight-knit, and all 5 of the children have managed to become fairly close as well via the summer visits and text messages/facebook. Despite the proximity, he doesn’t see the older kids much unless my two are there because he is a long-time prescription drug abuser and is now an alcoholic as well, and they just won’t/can’t put up with it. Other than the manipulative, self-serving, destructive behaviors that go with those diseases (and were the cause of our breakup), he isn’t a bad guy…he loves his kids, and is kind to all of them, but just is not a great role model/father figure. My two are the most understanding/patient with him but have also plainly told him that they will not visit/stay with him when he’s not in recovery (they will stop by his house to visit if they can catch him before he starts drinking). His health is deteriorating and his drinking has been getting worse so, for the past two years, my kids (now almost 18 and 19 y.o.) have been invited to stay with friends or with their twin half-siblings who are in their mid-20’s and own a home together. I arrange (and pay for) flights, transportation to/from airport, speak with the friends and kids throughout their 2 week stay, and send gifts or money with them so they can treat their hosts to a few dinners out and pay for all their own entertainment. I know my kids are thoughtful, polite, and helpful guests, and I assume they would not be invited back if they were not welcome!</p>

<p>Anyway, I always have a hard time extracting info from his mom and aunt who check on my 52 y.o. ex daily, make sure all his bills are paid, bring groceries, pay legal fees, and basically enable him to live this existence. They are always very secretive about things and it’s always been this way (I didn’t even know he had a problem until 3 months after we married and it had been going on since college!). After I had arranged their flights,etc last summer, ex-MIL called to tell me that the dates “didn’t really suit” and maybe they shouldn’t come…many phone calls later I discovered this was because his drinking had become a daily event. The kids had been invited to stay with a friend anyway and could not find any other time that would work for both of them (nor could I afford to buy new tickets) so I apprised them of the situation and they decided to go anyway. But, my D reported that my her grandmother called her every single day while she was down there and basically told her to stop “imposing” on our friend (who is also her dad’s very energetic, middle-aged, professional, non-drinking/drugging girlfriend) and that she and her brother should be staying with their dad…even though he was literally drunk 24/7, was about to enter court-mandated rehab after a DUI, and has a psycho ex-3rd wife who was breaking into his house almost daily and threatening him! I refused to allow it, my kids did not want to stay with their dad with all that going on, and his GF wholeheartedly agreed (she wasn’t even willing to see him on a regular basis). In the end, D politely but firmly told her grandmother to mind her beeswax and the kids really enjoyed their time with other family members and their brothers and sister.</p>

<p>I just received a strongly-worded (though couched in those Southern pleasantries) email from my ex’s aunt telling me that things are already going downhill (he spent 7 months in rehab and was doing very well, but came home a month ago) and basically saying that I shouldn’t allow the kids to impose on other people by coming down this summer. She went on to tell me what’s going on in their life and the lives of MIL and my ex’s GF…nothing earth-shattering, just normal work/family stuff and the self-imposed burden of taking care of him. Oddly, she mentioned that MIL had aged considerably in the last year and wasn’t able to have my kids stay with her (which has never even been discussed). I’m not sure that S can make time to go this year anyway, but D came home yesterday from her freshman year at college and HIT THE WALL over the email. She is determined to go unless I forbid it because A.) she’s very concerned about her sister, who is in chronic poor health and leads a fairly quiet and lonely life; B.) she doesn’t want to miss seeing her elderly grandmother since that’s her last living grandparent and they typically notify us of deaths in the family shortly after the funeral; and C.) she’s been told by his GF that her dad’s doctor is putting his life expectancy in months. Their sister and brother have asked the kids to come stay with them and my ex’s GF has also invited them back, although she is distancing herself from their dad in preparation for the heavy fall, she still calls and emails the kids regularly. </p>

<p>I just don’t know what to say - I really don’t want to have my happy home wrecked by having to deny D’s visit! My feeling is that D is now an adult, is free to accept invitations without her grandmother/great-aunt’s approval, and would certainly be welcome company for her sister as both girls look forward to these summer visits all year long. I’ve worked so hard for so long to foster these long distance relationships for my kids - they even have a great relationship with their dad’s first wife, who often invites them to spend time with her! I suppose my fear is also that my ex could die before they see him again as his liver is in very bad shape from 30 years of transfusion-acquired hepatitis and now the drinking which makes him ineligible for transplant. But I also don’t want to cause a rift with the matriarchs and I know they have a different “code”, long memories, and will likely influence the rest of the family (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc) in their opinion of my kids. Would it be awful if D just went without telling the rest of them that she was coming? I’ve suggested that we could fly her sister (and brothers, if they can get away) up here for a vacation but apparently her health issues will not allow that. Do you think seeing their dad in his current state is necessarily a damaging thing for kids of this age (as the email implied)? For years we’ve discussed this openly in my house and the kids are pretty well-informed about the disease, but no one on my side has had these issues and I rarely have more than a glass of wine so it’s not something they actually see on a regular basis. Am I wrong to think this is a non-issue?</p>

<p>Sorry this is so long, I’m just too tired to edit, but I’m interested in any advice/observations on how to successfully navigate through this!</p>

2

<p>Your daughter was invited to visit by her sister and a friend. Her grandmother has nothing to say about that invitation. Your daughter should accept or refuse that invitation as she sees fit. That’s the easy part of the answer.</p>

<p>I would suggest that perhaps your ex-mother in-law is trying to protect both her son and her granddaughter in this situation. You say your MIL sees your ex everyday. This must be incredibly painful for her, even after all these years. I sounds to me like she is trying to protect him from having his daughter see him at his worst, and to protect your daughter from seeing him as a destroyed man. Well, its too late for that, both of them know the truth, but she is still trying to keep it together for all of them. I would guess that secretly she is proud of your children for not abandoning their father in his distress.</p>

3

<p>Gosh, what a mess. Major kudos to you for going to such lengths so that your children can have relationships with their dad and members of his family. I can’t think of anyone I know who’d have been so committed to it, considering all you’ve had to deal with.</p>

<p>I don’t think there’s anything uniquely Southern in the way the family matriarchs have responded - there’s dysfunction in any alcoholic’s family, wherever they are. My own grandparents (European immigrants who lived in a blue-collar New England town) were out-of-control alcoholics for many decades. There were family secrets, lying, manipulation, poor mental and physical health, etc., to spare.</p>

<p>Since your d is an adult, she is free to forge her own relationships as she wishes. She may decide not to tell the extended family she’s coming - I see nothing wrong in that, and she certainly doesn’t owe anyone an explanation for how she chooses to spend her time. If she decides that’s the best way to proceed, why not? Or she may decide to inform the others that she plans to visit her sister, and if they choose not to see her - well, that’s their choice. All the secrets and avoidance tactics in the world will not change the central fact of her dad’s alcoholism. </p>

<p>My sympathies to you, your kids, and your ex’s family, who must certainly be in great pain over his disease. Have your children been to an Al-Anon meeting? It’s truly an amazingly helpful organization.</p>

4

<p>I’d let your D have the last say. She sounds so mature and reasonable, and I doubt she would be a burden on anyone. If things get rough, she can always change her return flight.</p>

5

<p>I don’t think this has anything to do with being a southern family. This sounds like a typical dysfunctional family that has had to deal with a major alcoholic - a lot of denial, enabling, hiding the truth, etc.</p>

6

<p>Your daughter has received invitations and she wants and feels she needs to go. I say let her go, with your blessings. She is surely aware, by now, of the agendas, intentions and methods of all involved. Imagine how she will feel if she doesn’t go and then her father dies or her half sister takes a bad turn for the worse. Your MIL may be acting in what she sees as the best interests of everyone involved. Fine. But your daughter is old enough now to make her own informed choices.</p>

7

<p>Thank you for your thoughts…I guess the Southern thing was about the way they make us feel as if we’re rude and pushy people for “imposing” on the kindness of others, the influence the grandmother exerts over the family, and that peculiar quasi-charming way they have of making it seem as if they’re helping when, in reality, they’re controlling! This is an old-time, very proper Southern family - old money, beautiful property holdings quaintly termed “the farm”, etc. but we have never asked them for anything nor do I expect my children to inherit anything more than memories as MIL has recently decided to cut their dad off financially which includes putting his (inherited) home on the market.</p>

<p>It’s a weird feeling as my family routinely reaches out to help others in any way we can and their grandmother finds this acceptable. but apparently to ever accept help is ill-mannered. I’ve discussed my intentions many times over the years with her, as we’re still on speaking terms, and I can’t seem to get through to her that their dad and I feel, since this is the ONLY father they will ever have, that it’s important for all of them to keep up a relationship - in my family that means sticking together through good times and bad! Her response was that she’s surprised I didn’t remarry (apparently forgetting the scathing letter she wrote me some years back when she found out I was in a post-separation relationship)…not sure whether she thinks this would have allowed her to erase the kids from their dad’s life, or what her line of thinking was. I used to think it was about protecting the kids, but she’s never extended an invitation to them although she has plenty of space and help. Since last summer’s incessant phone calling to order them to stay only with their dad, I’m wondering if this is more about her pride and need to give her stamp of approval to all things related to the family than anything else. </p>

<p>My kids have not been to Al-Anon but they’ve spoken with my family members who are medical professionals and counselors and they know they are free to talk with our priest or whomever they wish. We discuss their dad’s condition on a fairly regular basis and I honestly think it’s better that way as I have long since dealt with my own frustrations and disappointments with him. It’s not an abusive or violent situation in any sense, nor has it ever been part of their daily lives, and I think they would be so upset to hear from kids who have to deal with such things that they wouldn’t express their own feelings. They do understand that everyone has done everything possible to help him for decades, probably to his detriment, and that nothing they can do will change the situation unless he decides to help himself.</p>

<p>I suppose I should remain neutral and let D sort this out from now on…it’s just a bad way to begin adult relationships with family.</p>

8

<p>As long as your daughter is aware of her father’s illness and what it is she is walking into, then I would leave it up to her. I would certainly make sure she is aware of what you “know” in regards to the circumstances surrounding her father and allow her to make as informed a decision as she can.</p>

<p>Then, an email to your husband’s female relatives infomring them that your children are adults, now, and it would be best for them to communicate any concerns they may be having directly with these adult children, as you will no longer need to be informed of the circumstances surrounding the unfortunate failures in your ex-husband’s life. “Thank you so much for keeping me updated. I can’t tell you how much I have appreciated this over the years. However, now that the children are adults, it would be more appropriate for you to communicate about their father’s life with them. Again, thank you for your much appreciated support of my children’s well-being.” </p>

<p>This is southern for blank off.</p>

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<p>poetgrl - well said.</p>

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<p>I think that family is dealing with a lot - the alcoholism and the aging matriarch may only be the tip of the iceberg. How would you want them to tell you that this isn’t a good time for a visit? A strongly-worded letter is not written without consideration. It sounds like they are dealing with end stage alcoholism, and that can be horrifying. They have closed ranks, and that is their family way. Try to imagine yourself in their shoes, and guide your children accordingly.</p>

11

<p>While the family is not the OP’s family it is the family of her children. As she has stated her children are adults and can make their own decisions. After all, this is their father and their father’s family. Who are they to tell a son or daughter not to visit their father or a brother or sister not to visit their half siblings? They have their own relationships with family members and it is nobody’s else’s business.</p>

<p>Having been put in the position of being told not to call, telephone or visit a very close and dear ill relative I obeyed the injunction. The relative died shortly thereafter and I came to find that everyone in the family wondered why I never came. They were all shocked when I told them I was asked to stay away.</p>

<p>Who really knows what the situation is here. It is the great-aunt of these children telling them not to visit. He is their father. It is none of her business.</p>

12

<p>I think it is the grandmother, singersmom. But I agree with your conclusion.</p>

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<p>I have a similar family dynamic in place and it’s not Southern. But it is a family that at one time had money and influence and still lives that way.</p>

<p>I have to agree with the poster above (singersmom) that mentioned that she stayed away and then the rest of the family wondered about it. Ask yourself (or your D) how they want to be thought of and then follow that decision. No one may believe what someone else said, but they will remember that your D was there.</p>

<p>God Bless - it’s a hard situation.</p>

14

<p>Sound to me that your ex did one thing very well - find good women! If the ex’s GF wants your kids for a visit, why not let them go? Did you talk to her about MIL’s email? Did you talk to the half bro/sis about the email?</p>

15

<p>Singermom, you’ve hit the nail on the head as these are my feelings exactly. I’m sure A and MIL are of one mind on this and they both refuse to see that it’s all about the children, and not the adults. I’ve repeated this mantra for a decade now as MIL has almost always found fault with some aspect of the visit plans…too hot, other grandkids visiting at same time (a bonus for all the children!), she’s traveling then, etc… none of that has ever been a good enough reason for me to keep the kids from visiting. Heck, none of this has ever been convenient for me and I worry sick about them when they’re gone, but the kids have a right to see their father and siblings as long as it doesn’t jeopardize their health and safety! I’ve paid the price for speaking my mind, and it’s been far worse for ex who seems incapable of fighting anymore, but don’t want to see this extend to the grandkids. In her view, they are not adults yet (three are still in high school/college) and they should obey their elders until their dying breath anyway. </p>

<p>Lol, Treetop, yes he does have a knack for that (other than the psycho 3rd wife) and I’m thankful that 1st wife and GF are so nice as they’re my “eyes and ears”. I would instantly pull my kids home, or cancel their visit, if they told me to. GF complained last summer that she was also getting the daily phone calls from MIL about sending the kids to stay with their father (the woman is relentless!) and it drove her crazy. I don’t want to put her in that position again, though she was very sweet to offer (as did 1st wife). At this point in her life, it seems futile for anyone to be crossing swords with MIL when she just isn’t going to change. She’s a great lady in many respects, we all genuinely care about her and at one time she was my greatest ally, but we just don’t understand her.</p>

<p>D has seen the email but I’ve asked her to keep it private for now. She’ll discuss it with her sister before she makes her travel plans as they both receive regular calls from A and MIL. No point in having the other grandkids appear to be disrespectful and the boys can be unpredictable in their reactions…her eldest half bro is fiercely loyal to his sibs, particularly his twin sister, and the last thing we want is to cause a family feud. D can escape back to NY, but the others have to live there!</p>

<p>I’m sure some people already wonder why my kids don’t show up at funerals - they’ve missed both sets of great-grandparents and both grandfathers so far. It’s simply because we weren’t notified in time (MIL again, she felt it would be too much trouble for me and their dad won’t tangle with her if he doesn’t have to). We send cards and baskets to the deceased’s immediate family, so I suppose that will have to do. But I’m glad the kids have their own communication channels now…I used to worry that they would miss their own father’s service!</p>

<p>As far as the family closing ranks to protect the alcoholic goes, I’m not sure if this is a factor. I used to think that could be, but now that she’s cut him off (and the email referred to him as “imminently homeless”) it doesn’t seem to be the case. If GF doesn’t take him in, I wouldn’t be surprised to find him sitting in my living room when I come home some day! He doesn’t have direct access to his funds, they go through MIL who would pay his bills and give him small amounts of cash. This was done for his safety but she knows that he’s frequently called me for help when he’s exceeded his “allowance” (no, I wouldn’t send him money but have provided him tickets or a place to stay).</p>

<p>Thank you all for your thoughts and support…I really need that!</p>

16

<p>I think the way to deal with difficult people like this is is to–as nicely as possible–thank them for their concern and their input and then–as nicely as possible–just tell them what is going to happen.</p>

17

<p>Let your D go visit her half sister, who has invited her. She’s not imposing on anyone. Her grandma and dad will be glad to see her while she is in town. I would consider the grandma’s age (she must be fairly old?), her history of complaining and controlling, and not take her message that seriously. Your D certainly isn’t required to “obey” that email. </p>

<p>My heart goes out to you–raising your kids in such a complicated situation must have been difficult. I think I would’ve cut ties. It sounds like you’ve been more than charitable over the years. To a small degree I understand where you are coming from–my H is from a dysfunctional Southern family. (I’m from the Midwest, and while there are messed up people everywhere, his family is like nothing I’ve ever seen/heard of–and I do think of some of their “quirks” as particularly “Southern.” I could tell some stories. . . )</p>

18

<p>“Thankyou for sharing your observations and concerns. I’m sure you agree that I must do what is best for my children, and I have taken the information you have shared into consideration.”</p>

<p>OP, you sound like a very nice, wise and patient person!</p>

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<p>I recommend that your kids get involved in Al Anon or Alateen or private counseling with someone who specializes in addiction. They need help making decisions and dealing with this illness. No matter what they do, they may find themselves dealing with feelings of guilt. It will help them tremendously in dealing with the relatives.</p>