<p>Why would God create such a dichotomous reward system for so simple a choice as believing in Him? It seems convenient that the “right” way to live also happens to have a juicy bonus of eternal happiness. Do you think a “good person” goes to Heaven if they aren’t born again?</p>
<p>Because it isn’t our choice. We lack free will. Only through the Holy Spirit are we capable of doing any good – the Fall (Adam’s original sin) ruined us completely. Thus, because we can’t choose to follow God unless He influences that decision, there is no “special incentive.” Therefore, no, “good people” do not go to Heaven, because there are no such people.</p>
<p>wait so you think the world is 7000 years old and that adam and eve are historical people and there was a snake and a temptress and whatnot?</p>
<p>LOL</p>
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<p>Interesting. So you believe that God’s omnipotence removes the potential for free will? (I’m not trying to provoke you, btw, I like hearing about other people’s beliefs). </p>
<p>If the “choice” to be religious is due to God’s influence, why does He concentrate this influence largely on certain regions of the country? On certain economic groups, ethnicities, etc.? If you’re born into a religious family it’s fair to say that you’re more likely to believe in the same religion - this is all God’s deliberate choice?</p>
<p>Why should we even get out of bed in the morning, go to school, get married, attempt to live productive lives, etc., if it’s not even our choice to do so?</p>
<p>I am 26 years old. I stopped going to church when I was 7 or 8 and returned to church at age 22 or 23 when I started dating a woman who would eventually become my wife. As a child I didn’t like church because it was boring. As I grew up I believed in a creator but didn’t have any allegiance to any particular messiah. Every culture/religion has its own story, many of which are similar. </p>
<p>I think its stupid to not believe in some kind of creator. You can debate God’s personality and intentions for human life but this universe is too complex to simply happen by chance. </p>
<p>Soul salvation is more than just believing in God. You must have faith and a committed relationship with God. This committment is where many people fall short because they think simply “believing in God and Jesus” will get them into heaven. I am still working on this relationship part. My wife is a very spiritual person and has had a strong relationship with God for most of her life and personally seeing here “in the spirit” is what started me on my path back to God. My wife truly feels the presence of God and can easily trust in him and rely on him. I am still in the learning process because my spiritual relationship is not as strong and mature as hers.</p>
<p>As far as whether or not you choose to believe in God is up to you. My pastor’s goal is to spread the Gospel and lead people to God but he can’t force them down the right path. They have to choose.
I believe one purpose of this life is to build up and prepare our souls for the next step. Failing or succeeding in that mission will have consequences either way. Whatever path you choose, just be willing to accept where it leads you. If you say you believe in God just because you think not believing will condemn you to Hell, that is not faith or belief. There is no point in being a fake about it. God knows your true intentions.</p>
<p>lol you are beyond silly dude, but enjoy your life.</p>
<p>stupid not to believe in some kind of creator? why? is it also stupid to not believe in the afterlife? there’s no evidence for either and damning evidence for BOTH.</p>
<p>moderately intelligent people sometimes say the universe is too complex to have nothing intelligent behind it. sure, whatever, anythings possible. but that doesn’t mean we aren’t some more complex being’s computation simulation. and it doesn’t mean that we aren’t just one universe in an infinite array of multiverses. it doesn’t mean we aren’t a quantum computer in an extra-dimensional realm that we don’t know of and will never be able to detect. the ****ing point is that we don’t know. and so trying to say that ‘god’ looks like us and loves us and makes things happen is just absurd. there’s no reason to believe it other than the billions of other decieved morons. and that is NO good reason. </p>
<p>this whole idea of “there must be SOMETHING so i’m going to subscribe to the Judeo-Christian God” is completely counterproductive. you understand how absurd most of their claims are, yet just because they have and have had a stranglehold on society you’re going to just jump on the train? THINK ABOUT IT MAN. You really think there’s a fiery pit where you’re gonna go if you don’t listen to them? And live forever in pain? How? Why? Their God is just one of many that they’ve poisoned this earth with while the rest of cultures have gradually shed theirs for rationality. I wish you’d follow suit, considering you’re obviously intelligent enough to at least question their infinite absurdities…</p>
<p>you’re wife is crazy, i’m sorry for you…as you are probably a moderately intelligent person and have now been tricked into wasting your life away.</p>
<p>both of you should start truly enjoying your lives because once you are dead, its over and there’s nothing more. you can deny this until that very moment but it won’t do you any good because your consciousness and lifeforce will be over at the very MOST 2 ish (due to time dilation) hours after the last beat of you’re heart due to the massive amounts of DMT that you’re brain releases. you will trip, hard, and maybe (for your sake) you’ll get lucky and hallucinate about flying up into the white clouds and meeting jesus and the god of abraham. GLHF because even if it seems real, it isn’t and you’re about to enter an eternal sleep once the drugs have worn off. hate to be the one to break it to you, but i felt it had to be said. if wasting you’re entire life believing in fairy tales is worth that brief hallucinatory encounter with the ones you venerate, by all means keep having at it! but i pity you, and i wish you more joy in you’re life than the lies you subscribe to bring you.</p>
<p>danyellie, isn’t it amazing how the forces of hell attempt to gum you in their quest to put the bite on? Remember that those who raise their voice are doing so against Jesus Christ and His message of personal accountability and love to others. Be encouraged! And yes, you will love Cornell or wherever Jesus leads you. Keep having a blast handing out love as the evil one hands out his message of hatred.</p>
<p>I’m just going to ignore treesuss, and hope he goes away.</p>
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<p>If we don’t have free will, then Adam’s fall wasn’t because of his choice, it was because God preordained it. So God created mankind with the intention of ruining it. God sounds like a jerk to me.</p>
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<p>Many people have used the argument that belief in God is “safest” because if you’re right, you’ll go to heaven, and if you’re wrong, there’s no risk. (justin, I know this wasn’t your argument, this is aimed at others) But I think this quote illustrates that there is a downside if you put your faith in God, and it turns out He doesn’t exists. Suppose you spent your whole life “preparing your soul for the next step,” only to find out that there is no next step. If that’s true, then you’ve wasted the only life you’ll ever have.</p>
<p>As for the concept of an afterlife, I have a hard time believing that good people will burn in hell simply because they didn’t choose the “right” religion.</p>
<p>Daniyelle* (sp?) as a Christian going to a very intellectual top college I would encourage you to go to Cornell if you can get in an that is what you want. IF there is no Christian community like you would like- then start one! </p>
<p>Forget this argument of theism- work on your relationship with god and your school work.</p>
<p>As you can see by these 9 pages- arguing leads everyone nowhere. All these people Christian, atheist or otherwise have argued on the existence of god- or non existence and the virtues of believing in god or not, however this has done nothing for any of them.</p>
<p>None have reached this 9th page with an epiphany going “ahah!” this has changed my mind. No these people have wasted time and space arguing.</p>
<p>Ignore them go to Cornell, strengthen your faith in Jesus and remember that Paul, John and Stephen where are persecuted!</p>
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<li>And no I am not going to argue or respond to any foolish arguments</li>
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<p>After reading this thread, I must conclude that the militant atheists are even more annoying than the militant evangelists. At least the militant evangelists are happy…</p>
<p>StellaNova, wasting one’s life depends on your definition. Your assuming that a life spent believing in God is a waste if it turns out that God does not exist, but I don’t see it as a waste if my relationship with God brought joy to my life. I have been married for two years and I have a one year old son. My goal was to find a woman to spend my life with and to have children that I could raise into respectable adults. If my son dies tomorrow or dies 5 years from now, my belief that I would raise him up to be an adult would have ended in failure because adulthood would not exist for him. Does that mean that my decision to have a child was a waste of my time and that his life was a waste of time for him?</p>
<p>In regards to Hell: Good people who reject God will end up in Hell because they have chosen to separate themselves from God. Anyone who chooses to separate themselves from God can not be in his eternal presence. Hell is the place of separation from God and people, through their decision in this life, decide where they will go when they die.</p>
<p>andre10, ever since I decided to return to God I have been much more comfortable with life than when I did not pay God any attention. This does not mean that I am always happy and that life is easy. Quite the opposite. The daily grind of life is difficult and you are always faced with challenges and obstacles. Through your relationship with God you will find meaning and purpose for your life and all of your struggles and achievements will be put into perspective.</p>
<p>^ So God will cast people to Hell for exercising their ability to think and to question, a gift that God gave us?</p>
<p>If there is a God then I would expect her to love what she created unconditionally. Just like a parent will always love a child, even if they commit the darkest of deeds. A God that punishes mankind for using the gifts she gave them is both unjust and cruel. Just like it would be cruel if I gave you a necklace then scolded you for wearing it. I don’t want to believe in that kind of God.</p>
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<p>See if you still believe this after a year at UChicago, amanahill :-)</p>
<p>God does not condemn people for their ability to think and question. Like I just said, people go to Hell because they choose to separate themselves from God, and that path of separation ultimately leads somewhere (Hell). It’s like when a person chooses not to obey the law. A life of crime may ultimately lead to prison. A lot of people can’t accept the fact that God would allow his children to be punished. But I am sure any parent can relate to this when their child constantly strays from them. A parent may try very hard to protect their child from the consequences of their actions but ultimately they will have to let that child face the consequences. That is what God does. God will only wait for you for so long. Just because you don’t believe in God’s rules and actions does not mean he does not exist. It just means you don’t want God to have any control in your life.</p>
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<p>No, that is not what “God” does, God doesn’t sit the child down and tell them what they did was wrong and explain why. Your God lets people go on living without any clues, evidence, or clear signs of his existence and then at the end of life passes down judgment and banishes people to an eternity of fire and pain because they…used His gifts of wisdom, knowledge and creativity?. So are you saying that thinking and questioning are criminal traits punishable by eternal flame? That’s what your, frankly, absurd analogy suggests.</p>
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<p>No, it’s the zero scientific evidence that gets me. </p>
<p>You mention God having control of life, which brings us back to what Joshcasto said about not having any free will, and stellanova brings up a very good point that has yet to be explained: If god controls everyone and we have no free will that means Adam’s fall wasn’t by his own doing, but by God, and therefore your lord banished us to a ruined existence. I’ll reiterate: that’s no god I want to believe in.</p>
<p>I once took a Christian sermon, and replaced “God”/“Jesus” with “Kim Jon-Il”. It was hilarious.</p>
<p>Even if this God exists, why do you even want to worship a tyrant whose idea of fun is seeing people grovel and heat praise for itself?</p>
<p>^Amen</p>
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<p>To use your metaphor, separating oneself from one’s parents does not necessarily lead to a life of crime and prison. Someone could never have a relationship with God, but still be a good person, and I don’t think they deserve to be punished.</p>
<p>Quick question, many of you are stating you have an intimate relationship with a god. Now, I’d really like to know what this relationship entails. Do you think that god is literally talking to you? Or is it just a warm fuzzy feeling you get? I’m quite curious what exactly encompasses a relationship with god or if its just a blanket term used to justify you going to church every week.</p>
<p>haha watched jesus camp last night…so ****ing disturbing…</p>
<p>so you say that you do the things you do because you are so sure that God exists. my questions still remains - why? why do you believe that something exists for which there is no evidence for and actually lots of evidence against?</p>
<p>please, answer this question.</p>