<p>But God is omnipotent and we have no free will anyway (according to another religious person in this thread; you might not necessarily think this). Why would he give us the choice to accept or reject him if he not only controls it (being that he created us and our minds) but should, theoretically, know the outcome? </p>
<p>I’ve got this image of God anxiously listening to reports from around the world - “Bob in Waukegan now believes in you!” and God’s all like “YES I pulled it off”</p>
<p>Jesus Camp was beyond disturbing and should be required viewing in social studies for every middle school student in America.</p>
<p>These little kids being told that Harry Potter is a warlock and evil and trying to corrupt them and then they start “Praying in Tongues” and ****…its so sad, so disturbing, and needs to be stopped. Its worse child abuse than molestation…</p>
<p>again, i repeat, PRAYING IN TONGUES! What the *<strong><em>! Its just a bunch of 4-8 year olds mumbling random gibberish and convulsing and pretending they are talking to the holy spirit…wwwwwwwwwwwwhat the *</em></strong>!!!</p>
<p>The thing about a discussion is if the person you are talking to
1.has an agenda
2.is belligerent
3.is a bigot
4.likes to hear himself talk
5.doesnt understand the intricacies of the topic
then its no longer a discussion. Thats just mental masturbation on his part. Here have a tissue.</p>
<p>**** you, thats ********. (i guess this in addition to many other things qualifies me as belligerent, but clearly i do not care what you’re opinion is)</p>
<p>do i have an agenda? everyone has an agenda. just because yours lines up more with the majority of society does not make it right and does not mean that i am wrong. i can assure you, i am not wrong.</p>
<p>am i bigot? hell no. i am against ignorance (especially the willfull variety) and i am for knowledge and understanding. once you understand, you don’t hate people for no reason. but that does not preclude me from disliking or hating the ultra-religious or the religious-apologists. because they are wrong and like to perpetuate false and destructive ideas, i have every right to have a negative opinion of them.</p>
<p>do i understand the intricacies of the topic? i think almost every post i’ve made has shown that i do. but good try.</p>
<p>do i like to hear myself talk? no. i like telling people that are wrong why they are wrong and offering them a better option - knowledge and reason. i don’t need to post here, but i want to because i know (and have witnessed, via this threa dand others) the kind of people that are here and the willfull ignorance that their otherwise intelligent minds are latched on to. if i can change one person’s perspective, that is enough reason to speak my mind and to advocate for rationality.</p>
<p>funny you bring up mental masterbation…pretty much exactly what religion is (besides being the opiate of the masses). except its FAR more destructive and destroys the human spirit and will.</p>
<p>People who have a strong relationship with God come to him in prayer and in spirit. They reflect on God constantly throughout the day. God is somewhat like a still small voice. Not usually an audbile voice but rather a stream of thoughts, feelings, and impressions. You can also spend time with God by reading the Bible. Not reading it just for knowledge but also meditating and reflecting on what you read. Through this process you will experience revelation in addition to knowledge. Praying is perhaps the best way to talk to God because during this time you are solely focused on the communication between you and God. </p>
<p>Many people will go through the motions of reading the Bible and praying but are filled with so much doubt that God will never reveal himself to him. Unbelievers will say that if God reveals himself to them then they will believe that he exists. However, many believers today say that God reveals himself to them and the unbelievers’ explanation is that these believers are crazy and delusional. </p>
<p>Being in tune with God is difficult because our world is so full of sin and corruption. That was not the original intention of God’s creation. In the beginning God was able to clearly talk with man. Adam and Eve and even the Angels disobeyed God and brought corruption into the natural and supernatural worlds. This corruption distorted our perception of the truth and is the reason why our world is so chaotic today. God can clean up this mess and has every intention of doing so, but that is according to his timing, not ours.</p>
<p>treesuss, I have to agree with theslowclap on this one. All your posts basically say “lol, I think your beliefs are ridiculous for reasons I’m not going to clearly articulate so we could maybe have an intelligent discussion instead of just throwing insults at each other. No, I think I’ll just call you crazy instead.”</p>
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</p>
<p>Explain how this doesn’t fit all five of theslowclap’s points.</p>
<p>i am not wrong…so theslowclaps points are not valid.</p>
<p>i’ve already stated that i’m ****ing SICK of political correctness with regard to and even basic tolerance of people that hold uninformed beliefs. my posts should make that quite clear. my refutation of theslowclap’s points explain exactly what my intentions and viewpoints are. and under those views, what i am saying does not fit those points because everyone has an agenda, being right and knowing it is not belligerance, i am certainly not a bigot, i do not ‘like to hear myself talk’ and i do understand every last intricacy of this discussion.</p>
<p>theslowclap’s points have nothing to do with whether you’re wrong or not… the point is that it’s impossible to have an intelligent discussion with you. Do you honestly believe that you’re going to convince anyone of anything by just saying “lol, you are wrong”? The only conclusion is that you’re not trying to convince anyone, you just like to hear yourself talk. Maybe you understand the intricacies of this debate, but such posts don’t show it. And I’m sorry, but saying you’re “intellectually superior to just about everyone” is bigoted.</p>
<p>Take your last post for instance.<br>
</p>
<p>Maybe if you explained the reasons why Adam and Eve couldn’t have existed (and there are many) some people who believed in them would actually be convinced. Or at least, they could try to offer some intelligent counter-arguments.</p>
<p>You say you’re all for “knowledge and understanding,” but your posts don’t offer any. You seem no more informed than fundamentalists who stubbornly cling to their berliefs with no reason besides “I am right.”</p>
<p>Of course I believe in Adam and Eve. If they were not real none of us would exist.</p>
<p>Age of the Earth? Science has not proven with infallible evidence the age of the earth.</p>
<p>I’m crazy for hearing God’s voice? So I guess I am crazy when I dream at night and talk to people and go to places that are not in my bedroom. Is dreaming of things that are not real mean that you are crazy?</p>
<p>And God is not a perv. We were created to be attracted to the opposite sex.</p>
<p>I think treesuss absolutely loves to hear himself talk, why else bring up a post after a week of falling in the thread? Why else respond to nearly every post? You know, treesuss, when both sides are calling you out, maybe it’s time you take a long hard look at how you’re acting.</p>
<p>You’re not making arguments, you’re calling people stupid. You are a militant atheist and that’s what gives athiests/agnostics a bad name. I am all for arguing the issues and the evidence, if that’s what you were doing. It’s not.</p>
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<p>I don’t think it’s possible to make a more juvenile post. I know you’re about to give a quick response…because you love to talk. Maybe you should just crawl back in the hole you came from.</p>
<p>Why don’t you believe evolution could be real? Or, for that matter, why do you find Adam and Eve more likely than the Greek or Norse legends of the dawn of humanity?</p>
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</p>
<p>Science has never proven ANYTHING with infallible evidence. Has the Bible?</p>
<p>My research has shown that Greek mythology has roots from actual Biblical events. The stories are elaborate illustrations of actual people and events in history. </p>
<p>Evolution? I learned about this in my science classes in school. Even in the face of science none of it made sense. I also don’t see how atheist believe in evolution. Evolution is a process of change that requires something to control the process. That is unless a particular atheist believes all creation and any kind of change is nature is just a freak act that spawns from nothing.</p>
<p>It’s a freak act that spawns from energy, which is neither created nor destroyed ;). Freak acts get pretty common over a long enough period of time. And nothing about evolution states that it requires a controller. </p>
<p>Anyway, I’m sticking with the currently accepted scientifically scrutinized theory, until a better and even more scientifically scrutinized theory comes along, in which case I will celebrate, along with the rest of the entire scientific community. Who make their theories based on scientific inquiry, and observations thought to be known.</p>
<p>On a side note, I am religious. I just think that God would be more proud of us if we used our differentiating capacities of curiosity and logic.</p>
<p>The Bible can be interpreted many ways and I believe the message has been distorted by people. Someone asked about Adam and Eve being real people. Some people believe that Adam and Eve were the actual first two humans on Earth. Other people believe that the story of Adam and Eve is only a story, but a story that symbolizes the fall of all of mankind and how we lost our spiritual connection to God was disrupted by us choosing not to listen to our spiritual teachers. </p>
<p>In my opinion, the Bible is both a history book and a book that summarizes God’s laws. It is like a Cliff Notes for the universe. The universe and the purpose of life is very complex and books like the Bible present the truth in clear terms that our minds can understand. There are other books and web sites that get deeper into the real foundation of humans as spiritual beings and why were are here on Earth.</p>
<p>The way I see it, if parts of the Bible contradict each other, than some of the information it presents must be false. If some of it is false, how do we know which parts are true? For that matter, how do we know any of it is true? I can’t understand why you’d put your faith on such an uncertain foundation.</p>