Sports scolarships: expectations vs. reality

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<p>And most people who get a football scholarship from Wayne State could easily walk on at Michigan, OSU, Florida, and so on. But they go to Wayne. And if you make that a D1 school, even a bottom tier one, like Middle Tennessee State, and the shot at turning it down to walk on in practically non-existant.</p>

<p>However, NMF’s are offered full rides or nearly so to tons of schools(Alabama, Oklahoma, UCF, Tulsa, many many minor schools; full tuition at Fordham, half tuition at USC, and on and on).</p>

<p>My question was not if people would take money for without strings attached(they do). My question was: Why do football players take the best scholarship offered, rather than the best school they can attend(from a FB perspective)? And why do NMF’s turn down offers that are just as good, Oklahoma is easily as good academically as a SWAC school is at football, to ‘walk on’ at Ivies and the like?</p>

<p>Posters to this thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/462884-carving-out-time-campus-visits.html?highlight=college+visits[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/462884-carving-out-time-campus-visits.html?highlight=college+visits&lt;/a&gt; need to read this article.</p>

<p>Well, I’ve seen this “expectation vs reality” work both ways as well as with academics. I personally know of a family who pushed their kid so hard academically so they could get into the best schools. They did the IB program with additional AP classes. Classes at the Junior College. Had almost no social life. The kid adapted quite well. It didn’t seem to bother them that much. They graduated with a 3.9gpa. Had the extra curriculum, clubs, etc… Parents had their hard set on 3 particular schools. Kid got accepted to 2 of the schools but it didn’t result in the “FULL RIDE” that the parents were hoping for or truly EXPECTED. They thought their kid should be getting a full ride. They didn’t have that type of money; couldn’t take out that kind of loan; and the kid was bold enough to tell them that they weren’t going to go into debt for 10 years to pay for college. That no degree was worth 10 years of debt. GOOD FOR THEM.</p>

<p>The kid still wound up at a very good school; USC (Out of state tuition). Got a lot of good scholarships and grants from many different departments and organizations. It’s costing the parents only about $5000 a year after the scholarships and such and the kid is doing great.</p>

<p>Basically; you can send your kid to all the prep schools; AP CLASSES; IB program; most prestigious high schools; etc… They can graduate with a 4.0gpa; president of every club in school, and a well rounded individual; even with sports. That doesn’t guarantee them anything. There’s no guarantee to an Ivy league or any private college. The only college a kid is GUARANTEED to get into is an in state, state funded, university. (Assuming they get at least a “C” and acceptable SAT/ACT. Anything after that is a prayer. Personally; I believe it should be the kid making the dreams. If they want Princeton or Harvard; then help them go for it. If they get it; great. If not; they tried. They need to learn that sometimes you succeed and sometimes you don’t. On the other hand, if they only want State “U” then so be it. Help them with that also. A kid should NOT have a goal of what college they should go to. Any kid with that goal is coming up with it through their parents or their friends. As a parent, you should try and shut down such goals. It should NEVER be a kid or parent’s GOAL to go to harvard, yale, Brown, etc… The goal should be the type of education; what they want to study; part of the country they want to study in; the type of other students; the political/economic background of the college; internships; financial; etc… Then, you match those attributes that the kid wants with the school that fit. Maybe it’s harvard or yale; maybe it University of texas or Florida.</p>

<p>We were surprised at the number of boys in S class in elementary school that were a full year older than him (in fourth grade, that included ALL the other boys in his class). The parents gave them a ‘bonus year’ at the kindergarten level so they would be bigger when they got into the grade level sports.</p>

<p>This is the first I’ve heard of keeping a kid back in grade 8 to accomplish the same thing.</p>

<p>Yup, we know a family who put their 8th grade athlete in private school to repeat the grade, since of course the public school wouldn’t agree to hold him back. Then next year he will start high school–that much bigger than the other boys so that he can better make the varsity basketball team early and go on to get a DI scholarship. Or so the plan goes. Rumor has it the kid isn’t that talented, though–just big.</p>

<p>For fun, start questioning parents who claim their kid has gotten a sports scholarship. One tip off if when they claim he got a scholarship to an Ivy. What I found was that in most cases, while the kid might be playing in college, he really only got ordinary financial aid.</p>

<p>I actually know of a student who currently attends a top ten university as a freshman, and who spent almost all of his spare time honing his athletic ability taking private coaching, and competing in regional, then national competitions all through high school. The school he attends is always ranked top 5 in the sport, and he has, I believe, close to a full ride. </p>

<p>But his pursuit was always his own, and he supplied the ambition and energy to do it. I was extremely glad to hear his admissions result last year. </p>

<p>But this falls into the don’t try this at home category. Its too risky to have too much riding on it. </p>

<p>Frankly, as a former college athlete (not a really good one, but D1), I think most of the parents who are obsessing about this are clueless about the difference in level between high school and college. If you weren’t an all state or near that level player, you will have a difficult time getting any playing time in the Ivy League or NESCAC, not to mention any of the truly big time leagues. Its easier to break 1500 on your boards than it is to do that.</p>

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<p>And some do it because they see no need to be half-way through college by the time they graduate. Instead, they enjoy their high school years and play sports that they’ll never get to do again.</p>

<p>“And some do it because they see no need to be half-way through college by the time they graduate. Instead, they enjoy their high school years and play sports that they’ll never get to do again.”</p>

<p>I’m speaking of kids who are athletes and also have tremendous academic talent and could be vying for merit based scholarships. To do this, however, their GPAs would most likely have to exceed 4.0. I’m not suggesting kids take an excessive number of APs, but to compete for merit money, some demonstration of academic prowess, most easily achieved by taking some APs, is necessary. Some kids choose to use those credits to graduate from college early. Others, athletes included, use them to have a reduced academic schedule over four years, to have more time for their sport or other EC.</p>

<p>If merit aid isn’t something you aspire to, don’t worry about APs. </p>

<p>I’m the parent of student athletes, so I know the sacrifices kids make to succeed at their sport, and to take a rigorous enough high school curriculum to qualify for merit aid and/or apply to selective schools. </p>

<p>My point is that, if it’s about the money, and a student has both academic and athletic potential, it’s not a good idea to turn your back on academics.</p>

<p>There is nothing I love more than to see my kids competing in sports, but if that commitment cuts too far into their academic schedule, coach gets a phone call, and practice is missed or reduced as needed.</p>

<p>RR,</p>

<p>I am a former athlete myself. In fact I even DID receive merit aid scholarship money. I didn’t take a SINGLE AP class. I played three sports in high school at the varsity level. I also was a St. Louis Post-Dispatch Scholar-Athlete. </p>

<p>MY point is that SCHOOL does not equal EDUCATION. One of our guidance couselors used this quote something along the lines of “Don’t let your schooling get in the way of your education.”</p>

<p>I’ve known lots of student athletes who ended up attending schools which were “beneath” their academic ability (and not for financial reasons) - just because that was where they were recruited - and for the most part they ended up sitting the bench, transferring, quitting, etc. Not a success. On the other hand, I also know boys who are sitting on the football bench at Harvard, Yale, Brown and Berkeley, who never would have gotten into those schools on their academic achievements alone. It looks like they have the right combination of “adequate” academics and “adequate” athletic ability. So the system worked for them. I told my own kids that they were good athletes - but better students. Since my two youngest both had sports-related (and sports “career” ending) surgery in their senior years, it was probably a good direction to take.</p>

<p>kluge, you brought up an interesting point. A serious injury might derail college plans for the kid who put all of his/her proverbial eggs into the athletics basket. Not all injuries can be red-shirted; some are athletic career-ending.</p>

<p>I have a kid who is sports-obsessed. Since he was born he was always pushing to get to the next level – a kid who was ahead of the curve on the pulling up in the crib etc. As soon as he could walk he was toddling over to the dunk-it with his little basketball. I have a picture of him at 2 with a lacrosse jersey down to his ankles, a stick in his hand, and a pacifier in his mouth.</p>

<p>Some kids have an imaginary friend. This one had an imaginary <em>team</em>. My son had a uniform for every sport – at 3. He would play football, baseball, soccer, basketball, lacrosse, and I don’t know what all on the lawn, by himself with the imaginary guys, and change “uniforms” in the “locker room” which was our guest bedroom. For hours at a time.</p>

<p>He insisted on being a Giants football player for Halloween as a 3 yo – and it was a <em>really</em> expensive costume. I bought it anyway … and he wore it out. I think it went to nursery school at least twice a week for a year. Sans helmet and pads!</p>

<p>He did win lots of all-league, all-state awards in his chosen sport, he was a recruited athlete and he’s on the lacrosse team at an Ivy today. </p>

<p>The point is – I thought he was unusual as a small child. But every kid on his team has a similar story. The kids have to really really want it to make it at that level. It’s something that’s just part of their makeup.</p>

<p>cnp,
your son sounds a lot like my youngest. He learned to walk while dribbling a soccer ball. To this day he walks around the house with a ball on his feet, controlling it like a giant yoyo.</p>

<p>I think that gender and choice of sport have a large impact both on the admissions decisions for student-athletes at selective college and in the decision to award money. Women have a MAJOR leg up on the men due to the comparatively lower interest in varsity sport participation by women and thus a less competitive overall group going for those few spots. They also get more money on average at the scholarship-awarding colleges as the athletic monies need to get spread around a universe of athletes that includes no football players. </p>

<p>A second key variable is the sport. College admissions, even to the top schools in the country, are replete with stories about athletes getting favorable treatment in the admissions process, even for a minor sport. Women’s crew is a good example of this. Coaches look for a certain body type and personal drive as much more important than high school experience. They can take the raw material and mold it quickly to get a highly effective rower. If you’re long and lean and strong or potentially strong, this might be a very good sport to pursue. </p>

<p>A couple of other sports that have high value for the Ivies and some of the other selective northeastern colleges are squash and lacrosse (men and women). The recruiting for these sports is very active and the quality of the athletic pool playing these sports is much, much less than what you’d find at a major Division I football or basketball program. So, if you’re thinking about choosing a sport for your child to play that will give him or her an improved shot at selective college admissions, consider one of these.</p>

<p>so THATS why lacrosse is suddenly huge in our neighborhood! …from tiny ones all the way through high school.</p>

<p>I have posted many times before about athletics in college and the benefits of obtaining an athletic scholarship. My experience was in Division 1 - and my comments are directed at the Division 1 level - frankly, I have nothing but good to say about athletics at the Division III level - I am a big sports fan and think that Division III does a good job of balancing academics and the passion of athletics. </p>

<p>Division 1 athletic scholarships for serious students are not, I repeat, not, a good deal. Unless one wants a career centered around sports, I would avoid them. </p>

<p>I was fortunate enough to receive a full scholarship (a minor sport), but that was only after winning a high school national championship - and the work that this achievement required was significant - almost maniacal because in retrospect my athletic talent was more limited than I thought it was. And I needed the scholarship - my mother was single and unemployed - no way was I able to attend the kind of wealthy school (a USNWR report top 10 school) without extraordinary financial aid. Travel to the school and back home twice a year alone broke my budget. In retrospect, given the financial pressures, I likely should have taken an academic scholarship to one of the “lesser” ranked schools to which I was admitted. But what did I know? I had zero guidance or parental oversight. I was literally entirely on my own from age 18. </p>

<p>Athletic scholarships are not four year scholarships. They are one year renewable scholarships - and the coach has tremendous discretion to suspend, reduce or eliminate scholarship aid. Some schools are fairer than others, but the fact is that coaches can and do cut scholarships. This leverage has perverse results. No matter what lip service the school pays to school first or studies first - forget it - no 18-21 year old whose self-esteem in large part depends on how well they are doing in their sport (they wouldn’t have reached such heights without a healthy ego and sense of confidence) is going to feel at ease doing anything other following the coach’s express or implicit instructions as to training and competition - and in most sports - that means 20-35 hours a week - mostly all year round. This may sound reasonable, but throw in the fatigue factor (in my sport training twice a day was imperative because it was dominated then by foreign, older Olympic level athletes recruited into the system and intense world class level training was a must), and academics quickly becomes a haphazard process. I think such scholarships work for the types that want to coach and teach and have athletically based careers - particularly at big state universities where they can gravitate to majors that generally accomodate them - but really - they are much more challenging for the serious student, and from the perspective of educational development, really shortchange most serious students. </p>

<p>I applied to a very select honors program - and a wonderful professor - who was initially very skeptical as to whether a full time athlete could handle the work - thought it wrong to let athletic stereotypes govern his thinking - and let me in the program and challenged me to a fare thee well - making me work like I never had. Of course, this did make my athletics suffer (not a lot, but some), but fortunately most of the work was in my last year and my scholarship was “safe.” The pressure was tremendous - easily the hardest thing I have done - bar none - nothing has come close - and I ended up later being the editor of a law review at a very well known “Tier 1” law school - law school - where I did very well, was a cakewalk - really, a walk in the park compared to my undergraduate experience - I was bewildered that I had all of this time on my hands - and I even worked a part time job while in law school. There is no way I could do what I did in undergrad again - it drained every ounce of energy I had. And the thought of a social life was a joke. And I regret not having a great last year in athletics. And all in all being able to do what I did was a fluke - yes, I put in the effort, but there are very few professors around like the one that sponsored me - simply put, he taught me to be a man. I owe him every measure of my achievements. </p>

<p>But the “worst” thing about big time college sports is that unless one makes extraordinary efforts - and remember - Division 1 athletes are always redlining - is that it vastly narrows one’s circle of friends and acquaintances. No, it doesn’t have to be that way - but my life routine and cycle was so different than the average college student that it became that way. Take training twice a day - well, 10 am and 4 pm - even if class schedule permitted, did not work. There was simply not enough rest period with a 10 am session - you would be blasted for the afternoon session - and it was an awful feeling. So 7 am and 4 pm was the answer. Which is great - but that means staying up until 1 chatting with friends or playing a board game or whatever silly social fabric makes up college life was out of the picture. So life becomes somewhat narrow, and I discerned in my 20’s and 30’s that I lacked the social and group skills of many of my peers. People ping on frats and sororities here - often rightly so - but many Greek types do develop a good sense of dealing with people - particularly difficult ones - skills I sure as heck didn’t develop. I find myself being a loner today - which one could ascribe to my personality but when I go to competitions today and from time to time meet up with my old rivals (some of our kids are replicating our own athletic careers), they relate the same experience - indeed, often marrying someone on the team who was their first “real” relationship. </p>

<p>And let’s not forget career preparation. Internships during the summer? Maybe. But it is much harder for serious athletes. In my own sport, the NCAA championships were in the middle of June. So one would have to explain to employers why a late start was necessary - and further - why lots of time off in the end of July and the whole month of August was needed - the most important training months of the year that could make or break an athletic year. It could be done - but frankly, it was just much easier for me to leverage my modest local fame and take the standing union job offer - working 6 weeks for my spending money at the union shop with its high pay - than focus on a career building experience. Career experiences came, but they started later than most - another cost. </p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong - I have no regrets about the whole deal. I traveled the country (admittedly lots of nervous time in hotels), and became mentally much tougher and independent than I otherwise would have been - a great feeling. I didn’t feel “poor” or like a “victim” - I absolutely loved the freedom and being accountable solely to the guy in the mirror. How many kids can be completely independent at age 18 and actually pull it off? But unlike many other students (and their parents) on this board, I did not have many choices - and if there are choices, it makes sense for parents to really, really examine the “costs” of a scholarship, even it it is, as is obvious, a bit more painful financially. My wife met me during the end of my college days, and she, more than anyone, makes great arguments against the athletic scholarship routine for students that are academically serious. A complete non-athlete herself, she is able to comment in a balanced way about the costs of Division 1 athletics, and lets parents of kids in our ridiculously sports crazed high school know just what their kids are in for. </p>

<p>And because hypocrisy is never charming, my own kids - much better students than I could ever imagine - did not or are not putting athletics into the college equation, although my oldest was a very good high school athlete. She followed the lead of other posters here, and accepted an academic scholarship at one of these high ranked name schools - a scholarship that gets talked about frequently on one of these boards. And what is rare about her is not her achievements - which are great - but rather that she really listened when I told her - “don’t do what I did”, even though she was tempted.</p>

<p>Mam, great post.</p>

<p>As in other forums, many people have different experiences relating to the OP. As a parent that has had tremendous successes with children on the athletic and academic fronts, I would say it just depends individually, which path to take to get the desired results. Most kids, unless you are one that lurks on CC (lol!), won’t have the academic credentials to garner NMF monies, or the significant merit based scholarships that many are striving for.</p>

<p>After reading your post, I consider myself extremely blessed to have had the many opportunities for my children that years ago I only dreamed about. As a parent that never attended college to have children that have not only gone to college, but have thrived, and have so many choices is amazing. This was a huge soccer family and we have done the soccer thing to the hilt. As opposed to the viewpoint of some, it was one of the most rewarding experiences for my family. I would say that even if college wasn’t a result of the commitment. At one point we had four children playing premier soccer at the same time. Of course, there are trade offs. My D’s time was structured in a big way. It has not made her a social pariah though, far from it, and many of her teammates are her very best friends, and will be for many years. (Thanks Facebook). As opposed to her classmates who suffered through EA, ED and RD anxiety, she was committed to college during March of her junior year. She had been recruited by nearly 90 schools so it was a big relief to stop the phone from ringing. Even for many that are not as highly regarded, opportunities abound for the above average candidate. The biggest challenge lies in having a realistic assesment of your ability and where they will be best utilized in a collegiate setting.
It is true that as a D1 athlete, the demands are extremely challenging, but I disagree that you can’t have a tremendously rewarding experience academically or socially. They will be different. She and most of her club teammates will be graduating in 4 years, most with honors and in an assortment of disciplines from business to med and vet school. My D, who was a four year starter and captain along with 2 others garnered academic accolades all 4 years. The team GPA is over 3.0 as well. Their financial aid varied from books to fullrides, but they also varied in academic ability so many were able to compensate with merit money. On her club teams many parlayed their athletic prowess with acadmics to get into the most selective schools. There is no doubt that most would not have had the opportunity to attend these schools, had it not been for the athletic “tip” even though they were very good students as well. With my D and her peers, it made it a more of a sure thing. There are simply more great students than great athletes. There was significant attrition IMO in my D’s program for various reasons, but for those who wanted to stay, even if not in the capacity of a student athlete, accomodations were made. This has been the feedback from most of those I have kept in touch with in the soccer and football community.</p>

<p>I guess in the final analysis, one isn’t better than the other if you choose the best option for your particular goals. Do your homework with regards to looking for the best programs, do what is necessary both academically and athletically, look at your options and then decide.</p>

<p>P.S. My D got a full ride, I mean everything. My S stopped playing soccer after 10th grade. Thus far, my S has been accepted at OSU, Vandy and Swarthmore, with several more highly regarded schools pending. When the FA packages come back, i’ll be better able to tell you what’s the better route, lol!</p>

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RR, this is highly unusual. Most varsity teams would kick a kid off the team, or bench him, if he didn’t meet the full practice commitment. Your kids are lucky to be on teams with this flexibility.</p>

<p>mikasauntie, both lacrosse and field hockey are gaining in popularity around here for girls. I know mine play because they are new sports (for our school) and not much competition (no cuts!) Otherwise my kids could not play for school teams - they are gifted much more academically than athletically, but enjoy team sports. We have no interest in pursuing college sports!</p>

<p>guess I should have included a :)</p>