You have 3 years to plan for a $5000 expense. Your “plan” is take out a loan, at at a time when your son is nearing college age and your husband may be retiring – which doesn’t sound like a particularly sound economic plan. </p>
<p>A better plan might be to open a small savings account and deposit $150 each month. Then in 3 years you would have saved up the amount needed to buy the clarinet.</p>
<p>I don’t earn all that much and I don’t have a husband to support me. My rule of thumb is that if I can’t buy something without taking out loans, then I can’t afford it. For me, there are 3 exceptions to that rule:
Buying a house
Buying a car<br>
Paying for college </p>
<p>It seems to me that you are stressing because you want to borrow to pay for something you want but your husband will not approve of – but the situation could as easily be reversed. One potential benefit of being married is that two heads are better than one, an if one spouse feels an expense is unwise or unnecessary, it’s quite possible that the spouse is right.</p>
<p>How would you pay back the loan? There are tax penalties if you borrow from a retirement account and do not pay it back within a relatively short time frame – I’m having a hard time seeing why anyone would want to plan to borrow money and pay interest for a future expense, when you could be saving the money and earning interest on your savings instead. (Admittedly in today’s market you wouldn’t earn much, but that’s still a better option than borrowing). </p>
<p>I think it’s bad news to ever borrow against retirement assets for non-emergency situation, in any case.</p>
<p>Do you have good credit? An alternative might be for you to simply apply for a new credit card in your name to cover the amount of the purchase when the time comes, and then pay off that card. Yes, the interest rate would be higher, but I personally think that’ a better option than messing with retirement funds. If you feel uncomfortable with the idea of putting a $5000 clarinet on your MasterCard – think about <em>why</em> - that may help you at least understand where your husband may be coming from.</p>
<p>I was actually in a similar situation. Whenever I bought something (over $20 or so), my husband would question me about it. Not forbid, not give me a hard time, just question. And if I wanted to buy something that he didn’t, that was over a certain threshold, we didn’t buy it. But I was bringing into the home the same amount of money as he was, and didn’t like the feeling.</p>
<p>So we changed our agreement. I took 1/4 of my paycheck into a “personal” bank account. The rest continued to go into our joint account. The 3/4 of my check is more than enough to pay for our joint bills. I also have a credit card on which dh is not a signatory. I now have enough money to buy what want I want when I want it, and no one questions me.</p>
<p>This way, I can spend MY money without anyone else’s consent, and I don’t have to pay interest by taking a loan on anything. (It’s against my constitution to pay interest if I don’t have to!)</p>
<p>For the past 12 years or so of our 30 year marriage, it’s worked out. </p>
<p>It may be time to renegotiate the arrangement you have with your husband, zoosermom.</p>
<p>Not to bring up a morbid angle, but do you know what his your H’s life expectancy is, approximately? I have experienced a similar “misalignment” in goals, and it suddenly made sense when I remembered that H’s dad died at age 60. My parents lived to 85 and presently, 89, so my timeline is much different from his.</p>
<p>Bay, zm has posted that her husband is a public employee who can retire after 20 years with a generous, full pension and medical/dental coverage, and a lump sum. His job is extremely difficult and strenuous, and there would be no reason to stay after putting in the 20 years, as far as I know. This may be determining the early retirement age, rather than a concern about reduced life expectancy.</p>
<p>NYmom
The quote I posted referenced OP’s husband’s decision to buy a retirement condo at age 53 or 54. If I thought I might only live to be 60, I’d probably buy that condo now, too.</p>
<p>Maybe. Maybe not. I sure wouldn’t take that for granted.</p>
<p>DH have had this conversation. His paternal grandmother lived to be 102, so he is convinced he will outlive me (he even told me he believes this). Even though he is 4 years removed from a stage 3 cancer diagnosis, he confessed that he believes I will die first (okay, so we had this conversation well into a bottle of nice cabernet), and all I could do was laugh and shake my head ruefully. </p>
<p>He’s probably right, but I have to admit I’m a little offended by his confident belief in his superior longevity, but that’s probably because his inborn optimism is usually well founded. How dare he be right about something like this!</p>
<p>I’m not offended by the morbidity angle, but I don’t think we should make life plans based on maybe dropping dead early. </p>
<p>Calmom, I get what you’re saying and I appreciate it, but the issue is not an inability to afford the item, it’s about finding a way to purchase it without drawing in any of my husband’s funds, which are mostly co-mingled with mine. He shouldn’t be forced to pay for something he doesn’t support and I’m going to try to do it on my own. Paying myself back would be about $60 per month. I can handle that.</p>
Where my husband is coming from is no more or less than the place of not being interested in music. I’ll never be ok with the fact that he gets veto power over my money. </p>
<p>
I think you’re right. Ultimately, I’m going to have to respectfully tell him that this purchase may be non-negotiable.</p>
<p>I hope this doesn’t sound antagonistic, because I don’t mean it to be, but I don’t understand why it bothers you so much that your husband has veto power over your 401k money when you have no problem giving him apparent veto power over EVERY SINGLE OTHER dollar you bring into the marriage from your income. What makes the 401k money so special? And if you can’t use your own non-401k money to pay for the clarinet, why is it okay to use your own non-401k money to pay back the 401k loan? What’s the difference?</p>
<p>I’ve found this thread interesting as my partner and I are recently moved in together and are just figuring out how we want to handle finances together now and in the future. I’m just genuinely curious, not trying to nitpick your feelings about this. I respect the fact that every marriage has its own rules, and sometimes what works for one couple may not make sense to others and it doesn’t have to as long as it works for you. :)</p>
<p>It surely looks like your H makes plenty of expenditures (golf, deep sea fishing) that don’t particularly rock your boat – I’m puzzled at why that doesn’t work mutually? </p>
<p>We each have fun money, and we spend that whatever way we choose. He saves up and buys expensive toys that are completely uninteresting to me; I save up and travel to figure skating competitions. Low, low angst on any of it. But, as Ema said, every marriage has its own rules.</p>
<p>Clearly this is very important to you. Even if he doesn’t necessarily agree with it, he should be willing to compromise because it is so important to you.</p>
<p>That combined with the classical conflict between saver vs perceived spender…without realizing his own inconsistencies. </p>
<p>Then again, to most savers…borrowing against one’s 401k/retirement accounts for what is non-emergency spending would be the height of demonstrated financial irresponsibility/foolhardiness…especially if there are many reasonable alternatives available…including those offered by other commenters.</p>
<p>How about this idea…buy your son a $10,000 set of golf clubs (since your husband seems to care about golf). When the kid shows NO INTEREST in golf, sell them for 1/2 price on ebay and buy the clarinet.</p>
<p>Or…if the son’s clarinet playing is at a high enough level…why not encourage him to offer clarinet lessons for other kids/adults in the surrounding neighborhood for an hourly rate? </p>
<p>I’ve seen plenty of musically talented kids as young as 8-9 do that to contribute to family income, earn some spending money, etc. That’s another way an older cousin who played violin earned some extra money back when he was a kid during his late elementary to high school years.</p>
<p>Arrange to borrow $5k of YOUR DISCRETIONARY FUNDS THAT YOU CHOSE TO SAVE RATHER THAN SPEND ON GOLF, CLOTHES, TRIPS, ETC. from the 401(k). Casually present the loan forms to your husband reminding him that you are spending some of your saved discretionary funds but that the law requires that he consent to your spending your OWN money. Do not apologize. He has no say in how you spend your discretionary funds, just like you have no say in how he spends his. It sounds like that is well understood between the two of you, so why is there a need for him to approve of your spending past funds that you earned and chose to “spend” by depositing into your savings.</p>
<p>For me, this would be a situation where there would be no discussion. He can’t have his cake and eat it too! It’s simply a matter of paperwork and laws that impact an already agreed-upon system.</p>
<p>I think notrichenough hit the nail on the head. It should not matter that your husband doesn’t get the need for the clarinet. The issue is that it’s very important to you and your DS, and he should get that and be supportive. It’s clear you can afford it, so your DH has to learn that meeting your needs, within reason, is only fair. You are clearly very supportive of his desires. Sit him down and explain that you will continue to be supportive of his condo, his golf, his fishing, etc., but in return you expect him to be supportive of yours wants.</p>
<p>The part I don’t understand is why the money going into your 401(k) is considered part of your discretionary money. I consider funding a retirement plan to be a family expense.</p>
<p>stevensmama-it’s not. She contributes a “usual” amount to the 401(k), but then chooses to save, rather than spend, her discretionary portion of the household money. her husband spends his on things of his own choosing such as golf clubs & outings, etc.</p>
<p>I still would consider it to be a family expense, whether it’s the “usual” amount or the maximum allowed. </p>
<p>Decreasing the amount of discretionary money going into the 401(k) and putting some of it into a separate savings account for the clarinet would be an option. Then again…</p>