@coolweather,
But how would the airlines decide how many of these extra large seats they needed to put in and who would get them? What would happen when the number of large passengers was greater than the number of XL seats? Would you charge more for them? In that case you’d end up with the same problem we already have-requiring large customers to pay more for their seats. Would they cost the same? In that case, what’s to stop average size people who just want more room from claiming them? Remember what happened when people figured out that the kosher meals on many airlines were better than the regular meals. Suddenly a whole lot of people became Jewish. If the seats become reserved for confirmed “customers of size” would they then become the seats of shame, with airlines requiring a visual scan to confirm the passenger’s bulk? Are we essentially saying there should be a “fat class?”
Here’s a breakdown of airline policies. They pretty much all require that passengers who are unable to lower the armrests purchase an upgrade or second seat. Many will refund the price of the second seat, particularly if the flight wasn’t full, and often if the passenger does have to pay for a second seat it’s priced at the lowest possible fare for that flight. https://www.cheapair.com/blog/travel-tips/airline-policies-for-overweight-passengers-traveling-this-summer/
This is a difficult and sensitive issue. It’s easy to ask passenger how tall they are, but quite a few people either don’t want to say what they weigh or aren’t truthful about their weight. Customer service people must struggle with balancing the need to accommodate customers of size in a way that doesn’t cause discomfort to other customers with being sensitive to the privacy of heavy passengers. On very small flight passengers will often be asked their weight so that the plane can be properly balanced. I wonder what that experience is like for very large customers.
I’d also add in things like TVs, many clothing items, some food items, banking services as a few things that are cheaper now in inflation adjusted terms than they were in the 1970s.
^On a point of detail, business class tickets are not necessarily freely changeable, you can get discounted ones in various circumstances.
I really don’t like the expression ‘person of size’ or even ‘person of color’. OK I am not huge, and I am not very colorful, but I do have dimensions and I am not totally colorless.
@doschicos - on a recent international flight on United the coach seats were 7 across. The business class or whatever they call it were also 7 across! I was thinking of upgrading but it wouldn’t be worth it for me to not get more width.
The business class upgrade was about $150 each way. The first class upgrade was about $6000 each way! It’s crazy out there.
I guess that’s why they were willing to upgrade to business for only $150 - not getting much more than some better food, @greenwitch. I think business class can really vary by airline and route.
Computers (and devices that are mostly computers, like mobile phones) are probably the biggest example of things that have gotten much less expensive since the 1970s.
The [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_DynaTAC]DynaTAC[/url] mobile phone prototype was first demonstrated in 1973, and first offered commercially in 1984 for a price of $3,995 ($9,253 in 2016 after adjusting for CPI inflation).
The business class I mentioned did have more legroom but it’s a shame (or a sham) that it didn’t have more width.
Look at the diagrams on seat guru but also look at the numbers. I’ve been on 2+2 flights on Jet Blue that were quite comfy and also on 2+2 flights on other airlines that were very tight and where you couldn’t stand up straight, even in the central aisle, if you were 6 feet tall. Big difference!
They didn’t have such provisions back when I was flying back from China as it took place a few years before 9/11. Everything’s gotten much more strict afterwards.
You’re assuming I didn’t try the polite negotiation or attempt to get the flight attendant involved…even though I clearly stated the flight attendant wasn’t interested in getting involved because the jerky middle-aged guy was well-built and attempted to intimidate me and the other neighbor by citing his experience as an infantry platoon commander.
Interestingly enough, if this had happened post 9/11, that passenger would have been ejected off the plane right away by the flight captain after being notified by flight attendant or detained by the flight attendant until he was picked up by the authorities at the first stopover for aggressively expanding his arms and legs well into his neighbors’ space.
Airlines are pretty savvy about yield management. They’ve already put “economy plus” seats on the plane for international flights. And YES, they charge for them. They charge a modest price premium over regular economy.
I’m guessing the airlines haven’t bothered putting “economy plus” seats on short haul domestic flights because the demand just isn’t there in terms of passenger willingness to book it in advance. Passengers are relying on getting free upgrades. Domestic boarding is now a circus with 40 people on the upgrade list for each flight.
And that’s assuming one gets food on flights included with one’s ticket. On my last few cross-country flights lasting 5-6 hours…there was no airline meals included with economy/jet blue tickets.
One had to pay extra for it and IMO…so not worth it. One’s much better off either eating before the flight or doing so after one has arrived at one’s destination area.
My point was that there’s no real guarantee those seats would go to large passengers. Without such a guarantee we’re left with the same issue.
I often fly economy plus on shorter domestic flights where it’s not worth it to go business. On these flights the difference is sometimes just that you have a better flight attendant ratio and free entertainment and food-the seats themselves are the same as economy plus.
Economy plus seats are one of the perks airlines offer to the ever escalating list of special status flyers. Those passengers would likely raise a stink if plus sized economy seats were offered to large passengers for free but not to platinum, gold, etc. flyers.
On United,
Delta has a similar system, with Comfort+ available to Diamond and Platinum customers either at booking or when seats become available any time thereafter, available to Gold and Silver members 72 and 24 hours in advance respectively and to general flyers at check in if still available.
I recently flew domestic first class on AA (a week ago). It was a three hour flight. We got the warm nuts, the hot hand towel, wine, a full meal, the whole shebang.
^Yes, it definitely depends on the route and the carrier. First is usually considerably better but at a cost I’m not often willing to pay for a short domestic flight. Depending on the flight and route business or business/first can either be a wide comfortable seat or two seats in a standard row of three with the middle seat left open and a curtain blocking off a couple of rows from the identical economy seats behind.
@PrimeMeridian Yes, I am well aware of airfares being cheaper after deregulation. My point is they really aren’t “cheap” now. They were artificially expensive during regulation because of regulation. You keep pointing out that we should feel fortunate because they are cheap now. I’m pointing out we should feel fortunate because we are no longer being screwed by monopolistic price fixing.
The “nobody noticed” part of the article is ridiculous. People are well aware of it. Why are so many people flying now?
It’s likely you don’t have any problems getting an upgrade because you’re the type of flyer who has a lot of FF miles. Those with elite status get a first stab at them.