As a bit of a digression, remember when airlines allowed smoking on planes and nothing separated smoking rows from non-smoking? I’m sure glad those days are gone!
Yup, @Sue22. There was just a little piece of paper sticking up from the seat that differentiated the front (non-smoking) from the rear (smoking) rows. Also remember when there were little curtains on the windows. IIRC, they snapped back and then you unsnapped them to shade the window. Also remember when there was ample leg room. This, especially the smoking and curtains, was many decades ago. Always best to be clear here when one is recounting examples from many, many moons ago.
Well, talking about ancient history . . . my last flight on Southwest, there was a “family section” up front. On either side of the aisle, there were two rows of seats (3 across) facing each other, with a table in between - you could lay out snacks for the kids, play cards, whatever you wanted! Must be close to 30 years ago . . .
Yes, there are tribulations in flying. I will drive quite a ways to avoid flying, but not to the other coast or anything over about 8 or 10 hours away by car. I still fly once or twice a year anyway, although in days of yore I often flew for business. We generally take one annual family vacation for our family of three, and I would say that at least half the time we cannot get 3 seats together in coach. Of course it would be ideal if we could as we could keep our girth and our germs to ourselves. If this is not possible, I have H and D together as aisle and middle (if possible), and it evens out, since she is small and he is large. A few times we were unlucky enough to have 3 middle seats. No one will ever switch for a middle. Even if he or she hates his traveling companion, they would rather see someone else miserable.
Flying often brings out the worst in people. I can understand why. You have been partially undressed, de-shoed, wanded, x rayed and perhaps missed your connection etc all due to something that is not your fault. I have met some of the rudest flight staff, and some of the nicest. Goes for the other passengers too. During one unsufferable experience, where the flight crew refused to help me sit with my then very small daughter, and so many rude people who I asked to change refused, some nice people saw that I was about to cry and gave up their seats. The next flight we got an unasked for upgrade from a wonderful crew member.
If I can reserve 3 seats together by paying for economy plus, I will do this, even though it costs more. I would rather sit with my family for those few hours.
I too think the airlines could have a question before you pay that asks if you can fit in a seat with the armrests down. It would be an honor system type question but it is fair and less intrusive than dealing with a morbidly obese person at the gate. My butt fits, but it is really unfair to me if someone cannot put the armrest down and is spilling over into my space. My butt fits but I am very tall and it is bad enough that my legs barely fit if someone has stuff under their seat but my legs are not affecting someone else. Someone’s large girth does affect the person next to them. Many planes fly full now so I think the airlines need to suck it up and deal with it and people that need 1.5 seats should be honest and then purchase that extra space. People know if they will fit or not.
I do feel sorry for the really tall guys with broad shoulders but most of the time they hit the window or aisle seats and they do not really impact their seatmates.
I can envision many instances where males, because of how they carry their weight, could fit in a seat with the arms down yet still intrude into someone’s space with their upper body. Just saying…
Also, someone’s legs can affect one’s space when they do that man spreading stuff because they have no knee room (kind of don’t blame them though - I can’t imagine how some tall, long-legged folks do it).
I think the instance where a person cannot make their legs fit is pretty rare…same for a guy whose shoulders are so broad that they take up part of the next seat…I think the critical issue is the greater number of morbidly obese people…and it is not only airplanes but the confinement of the planes just makes the situation that much more noticeable.
Just a note that it’s not weight alone that determines if you can fit in the seat. I have no problem putting the armrests down, although I weigh over 250 pounds. Because of my height and the way the weight is distributed, I don’t really spill over. But I’m really uncomfortable in a regular economy seat, and truly miserable in a middle seat. Personally, I will take a later flight to avoid a middle seat.
Agree that is not as easy as asking someone their weight. It is asking can they sit in the seat with the armrest down. A 200 pound person that is over 6 ft tall will probably fit fine and a 200 lb person that is just over 5 ft may require that extra half seat…the question is if you fit…or not…People know if they fit or not.
Southwest had the rear facing seats opposite front facing seats at the bulkhead and around the exit doors until the early 2000s (although I do not recall any tables in between any of them, other than perhaps tables that folded out of the armrests). This was called “club seating”.
I got stuck next to an overflowing passenger a few months ago. I (discreetly) took a selfie very much like the one in the article and sent it to some friends looking for sympathy (which I got). His shoulder and arm were bulging a good 3-4 inches into my space.
When the flight ended and we all got up, I assessed the passenger from behind as we walked up the aisle and exited. I was really kind of surprised that he didn’t really look that large while upright and walking. He was not somebody you’d have kicked into the “buy two seats” category on upright visual inspection.
It occurred to me that our seats must have just been really small. What’s the average now, 17 inches? Next year they will sneak it down to 16…then 15…then 14… and we will ALL be buying two seats. It’s easy to direct annoyance at the overweight passengers, but it’s looking like that category will be getting bigger and bigger as the seats get smaller and smaller.
Not a fan of dumb lawsuits, but sometimes they serve a purpose, like an attempt to wake up an industry that’s trying to sneak stuff by us little consumers.
17" is typical. It has been typical for decades, at least in six across single-aisle planes like the Boeing 737 whose airframe has been around since the late 1960s. The newer (since the late 1980s) Airbus A320 and variants are slightly wider, so its six across seating can use 18" wide seats.
Hawaiian Airlines’ new big kahuna policy:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/hawaiian-airlines-policy-weighing-passengers-american-samoa/
I didn’t find the Telegraph article compelling. While she wanted everyone to be sensitive to her situation, she seemed to be insensitive to the situation faced by her seatmates - namely that they will have difficulty using all of their (paid for) space because she may be spilling over into her space.
She offered no solutions.
The woman in the Telegraph article was flying for business. Why not have her company, who is mandating the travel, purchase 2 seats.
My thoughts exactly,
Many of us have been the dreaded Woman With A Baby on a plane. I sympathize with her. But buying two seats is the answer. She should go to her HR dept and make her need known. I doubt anyone will complain, unless it is her clients paying her expenses.
^^^ or, perhaps the boss will stop calling her to handle out of town meetings, sparing her those days and weeks of dread and preparation.
Or, perhaps her boss will stop sending her and send another coworker because it is cheaper to send someone who doesn’t incur an extra expense and she’ll lose her job giving her ZERO incentive to talk to HR.
Not the most sympathetic group here.
Sorry, but I’m not sympathetic because I’ve sat next to such a person and it made the flight even more uncomfortable.
We both dread flying for the same reason - it will be uncomfortable. And I didn’t read any solutions in her article.