<p>I’m a prospective early decision student for Northwestern and my credentials are essentially par for the course, as far as I’ve seen anyway. Regardless of my extracurricular activities, recommendations, grades, etc. I was seeking opinion regarding ACT/SAT/SAT II. I took an ACT at the beginning of my junior year and recently took the full battery SAT. Scores are as follows
ACT:
28 English
32 Math
35 Reading
28 Science
31 Composite
SAT:
750 CR
710 M
640 W
2100 Composite
Northwestern has my SAT but not my ACT score. I plan to re-take the ACT regardless but I was curious if anyone would recommend taking the full SAT again to (in all likelihood) improve my score, or take multiple subject tests to demonstrate versatility, etc. All opinions would be greatly appreciated. I only have one opportunity to take SAT or subject tests since I am planning to apply early decision, and was simply seeking guidance.</p>
<p>Here’s the question, do you think you can do materially better.</p>
<p>Your two part SAT – 1460 is equivalent to a 32-33 on the ACT.
Your three part SAT – 2100 corresponds to a 31-32 on the ACT.</p>
<p>So, basically, though you did somewhat better on the SAT than the ACT, the two scores are in the same range.</p>
<p>As it stands, you probably send in the SATs, but not the ACTs? Ask your GC, if he or she is any good.</p>
<p>How were your PSATs? Other test scores? How seriously did you prepare for the tests last go around? Major Prep Course-Tutoring, Just took them cold? Somewhere in-between. It may just be that you’re a 2100-ish SAT person (which is great, btw), or it may be that there is reason to believe that you may improve.</p>
<p>Looking at the individual scores – the 750 CR is fine. The 710 Math is probably a bit low – but this may depend on what you plan on studying. If, for example, you say engineering, I’d think it’s low for NU. Honest assessment, you’re ‘in the ball park’ but these scores aren’t going to blow NU away. Basically, NU is a target-ish school for an ED application, but you’re by no means a lock.</p>
<p>The writing is frankly somewhat low – BUT, and here’s a big BUT NU is somewhat murky on its policy as to how it uses this portion of the test. I think the consensus is that they treat it as an SATII, but I don’t think anyone really knows. If you do retake, and get tutored, this may be the biggest opportunity for improvement.</p>
<p>SAT II. We get different info from NU. I’ve seen threads suggesting that NU states that you won’t be penalized for not sending them in. When my D and I visited NU a year ago, they told us at the presentations that they were ‘recommended’. My advice – take the SAT II. What is the SAT II policy for the other schools you’re thinking of applying to? My guess is that you’re probably going to decide that you have to take them anyway (especially if you don’t improve on the ACT). Decide on what to do with them once you get the results back. I’d probably recommend taking them in any case.</p>
<p>So, bottom line. I’m pretty sure that NU superscores, so if you have reason to think you can improve on the SAT and/or ACT Definately retake them. If you think this is just where you are – talk to your GC or SAT coach.</p>
<p>Thank you very much for your input. In all honesty, I took both the ACT and the SAT cold and could certainly improve on both and plan to do so, hopefully. My only question is that if I’m planning on applying early decision, will I have the opportunity to re-take the SAT and take multiple subject tests as well considering there is only one testing date prior to the November 1 ED deadline? NU is my dream school and everything afterwards is essentially a fallback, but good schools nonetheless (UW-Madison, U of M-Ann Arbor, UM-Twin Cities). I was simply looking for any sort of edge I can gain in terms of test scores, to either fit in or stand out.</p>
<p>Additionally, my PSAT was a 212, which will likely qualify me for National Merit status in Wisconsin. Does this improve my chances?</p>
<p>Call the NU admissions office and ask them. I’m sure they’ll know when a test has to be taken to be considered for ED.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t consider U-M to be a fallback for an OOS, especially with the move to Common App. Take a look at the RD thread and you will see many high stat students rejected or waitlisted. I think it would be a reach just as NU is with your stats.</p>
<p>We don’t know where U-M will fall out with addition of Common App. My guess is that for the foreseeable future,it will remain a step behind NU for OOS in selectivity. It’s a great school, but the difference between OOS tuition and NU tuition isn’t great enough to justify the difference in average class size (IMHO, at least). And this doesn’t take into account relative strength of the academics (which we could argue for 100 posts and never reach a conclusion – Let’s not!!!).</p>
<p>My D was accepted at both, so I was following the stats pretty closely. For O-P, I’d guess U-M as a ‘match’ (though not a safety)- probably get in, but don’t be shocked if you don’t, and NU (ED) as a high match (i.e., it’s a numbers game, it’s one of those schools where even if you’re a match, you may only have a 1/3 to 1/2 chance of getting in.)</p>
<p>Of course none of us really know.</p>
<p>To OP. National Merit Scholar status will help somewhat, it’s not unique though.</p>
<p>Zephyr15, my son was also accepted to both but I would consider U-M to be a reach and NU a high reach with a 31 ACT and 2100 SAT as opposed to a match. There were students with 34’s and 35’s rejected at NU and also applicants with low 30’s rejected at U-M. A year or so ago a 31 would be a match at U-M but not any more.</p>
<p>kdogg044</p>
<p>First Congrats on your son!! Where is he going? My D chose NU (McCormick) and is thrilled.</p>
<p>I think our dialog has an important point – we each probably reviewed admissions requirements pretty thoroughly in helping advise our children in the process, and we’ve come up with different opinions. None of us really know how NU works and we don’t see the applicants essays, etc. The danger (from people who are asking for chances) is taking what any of us say too seriously.</p>
<p>My bottom line – with respect to OP. If you took the ACT and SAT cold (without preparation), spend the summer prepare thoroughly and take again. With superscoring, there’s nothing to lose. Call NU (and other schools) to find out what scores will be considered for ED, RD, etc. If NU is really OP’s first choice, ED will be his/her best shot. Even with current scores, I think he or she has a shot, and the application (ED or RD) won’t be a waste.</p>
<p>Zephyr15, my son was all set to attend WCAS but was called off the waitlist at Yale so that is where he will be in the fall. I do agree that ED would be a good idea but only if the OP is sure they can afford it regardless of aid. We couldn’t take that chance and it worked out in our favor applying RD as we were able to compare the different fin aid packages. My son would have been IS for U-M but based on COA they were the worst one of the three in percentage of aid offered.</p>
<p>Admissions really is a crap shoot so I would plan on applying to at least two safeties as well a few matches with one or two reach schools during RD if you aren’t chosen ED to NU. I thought my son had a better chance being accepted at Brown than Yale. He was waitlisted to both but eventually rejected at Brown.</p>
<p>Congrats on your son!!</p>
<p>I think OP said he was thinking of applying ED. I agree 100% if financial aid is a factor, it makes more sense to see what packages you can get from all schools.</p>
<p>kdog - you prove what a crapshoot admissions is! My daughter was admitted to Yale and Dartmouth, waitlisted at Northwestern. She was admitted very quickly (with time to go to a Wildcat Day in April) and chose Northwestern over Yale or Dartmouth.</p>
<p>amtc, what was the deciding factor for your daughter? For us, it came down to not having a student loan or having around $30K in debt at the end of UG. As generous as NU was, it paled in comparison to Yale. With my son, he plans to attend either medical school or graduate school so minimizing debt was very important. He would have loved to attend NU (attended Wildcat Days) and even accepted his position before being called off the waitlist.</p>
<p>I do believe the essays are really important to the decision process as many students have equal or perhaps better stats but may not have conveyed how much they love a particular school. My son scheduled a visit on his own to Yale after he was waitlisted and set up a meeting with with admissions while he was there. He also followed up his visit with a letter conveying his interest and updated them on awards and accomplishments since his application. I don’t know if it helped but I guess it surely didn’t hurt.</p>
<p>amtc wrote:
“kdog - you prove what a crapshoot admissions is! My daughter was admitted to Yale and Dartmouth, waitlisted at Northwestern. She was admitted very quickly (with time to go to a Wildcat Day in April) and chose Northwestern over Yale or Dartmouth.”</p>
<p>This post should be put on every Ivy site and every “not an Ivy but impossibly rigorous school” site (Northwestern, UChicago, Washington University in St. Louis come to mind). I wish there were a good synonym for “crapshoot” because that’s the only way to describe much of the admissions process these days. There are kids at Northwestern with better “over-alls” (not the pants) than kids at the Ivies - and both sets of students are getting great educations. </p>
<p>Financial aid is really a huge issue. Harvard announced a major re-structuring of its aid in December of 2007, and Princeton and Yale (I believe) followed. We will be spending about twice as much on NU for my daughter as we did for my son (with only three years of the re-structured aid) at Harvard. That’s hard to pass up.</p>
<p>LOL, having hijacked this thread already … might as well continue</p>
<p>Crapshoot is an interesting term. When you’re talking about any single school – yes. However (and I may be in a minority of 1 in saying this), overall, I think the process works pretty well. Based on my D’s friends (supplemented by what I read here), I think most kids get into the level of college you would expect. Now maybe one student gets into NU and not Chicago, and another gets into Wash U, but not NU but that doesn’t really change the level of school that the student was admitted to (and probably has less of an impact on the education than any of us would care to think about). There are always some exceptions – someone who actually goes to their ‘safety’ school, but there always have been, and that also occurred a million years ago, the parents and grandparents of today’s students applied. I don’t think it’s any more prevalent now than then.</p>
<p>^
@zephyr, I think what I wrote led to a misunderstanding. I think I agree with what you are saying. I didn’t mean that the process is like a roulette wheel. I believe that students generally get into one or more schools that match their ability. I do, however, feel that when you are talking about the most competitive schools, it isn’t really clear why one student might get into Yale and Dartmouth but get waitlisted at NU, or why a student might get into Harvard but not Swarthmore, etc. I don’t mean at all that schools are randomly choosing students. And I was also trying to say that, over the years, Northwestern has become one of those schools that, even with an incredible record, a student might not get into because it has become so competitive. Does this make sense?</p>
<p>@Enough</p>
<p>I agree completely.</p>