Prep (whether they have time or not, and some do have time) for these students means nothing when many, likely most, of them haven’t had an adequate k-12 education. Using a two hour and 14 minute test in admissions doesn’t make much sense. But, we are just rehashing what’s been already discussed ad nauseum on this thread for 1,800+ messages. And to be clear, I have no problem with any college requiring tests. That’s their prerogative.
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It doesn’t make sense for most college and universities, since most colleges and universities accept just about everyone, no matter their test scores.
For the small number of highly selective universities, many offering the most challenging and rigorous curricula, it makes a great deal of sense.
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We will have to agree to disagree that a two hour test should be a meaningful factor in admissions for disadvantaged students. But again, I support schools choosing the policy that is best for them.
Anywhoo, not all highly rejective schools require tests. And the jury is out whether requiring tests makes it easier or harder for a given college to achieve their class composition goals. What I know for sure is that many people are watching…people on both sides of the debate. Which is an unfortunate position for the colleges to be in.
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What do people here think of requiring SAT or ACT for transfer applicants, as Stanford will (see post #2017)?
Is it their test results from when they were in high school or brand-new tests?
The linked Stanford page on the matter does not specify, except that they prefer test scores from within the last five years.
Given Stanford’s focus on non traditional students in transfer admission, it is likely that many such applicants either do not have SAT or ACT scores, or have scores older than five years. So many such applicants will have to take the SAT or ACT again, despite having attended college after leaving high school.
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This is from the NYT today. Will be interesting if the public can gain access via Freedom of Information Act requests.
As part of the settlements struck with Brown and Columbia, the Trump administration will gain access to the standardized test scores and grade point averages of all applicants, including information about their race, a measure that could profoundly alter competitive college admissions.
*The admissions disclosures will provide the government with data on accepted and rejected applicants broken down by “race, color, grade point average and performance on standardized tests.” *
Of the high school graduates who scored between 1400 and 1600 on the SAT in 2024, the highest possible scores, 1 percent were African American, and 27 percent were Asian, according to the College Board, the private organization that administers the test. About 12 percent of students taking the test were Black and 10 percent were Asian.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/05/nyregion/columbia-brown-admissions-trump.html
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Tellingly the criteria do not include socio economic background indicators.
That being said, students no longer indicate race/ethnicity (or “color” as the agreement states) as part of their application basics. While it can be sussed out through essays, activities, etc, the race/color request by the Trump Administration wouldn’t get much data AFAIK.
In addition, this would not consider students who went test optional - which may be an incentive to remain (Columbia) or return to (Brown) a test optional policy.
The information is collected in the Common App but oppressed during admissions review. Schools still report the makeup of the matriculated class after the fact. I believe it is a required part of IPEDS.
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I expect this is coming for med school admissions too.
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Darn, yes, you’re right.
And without any socio economic information, context, etc, it’s easy to twist the information, use it for propaganda, or abuse the distortion for further bullying of the universities.
If I were Brown I’d announce I’m going back to test optional.
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Back when “SAT” meant “Scholastic Aptitude Test” (implying something like an IQ test), it was still mostly an achievement test. What was then called the Verbal section was mostly English vocabulary – probably intended to be a proxy measure for how much reading one did and how complex the reading was, but many SAT prep books and courses of the time focused on memorizing lists of supposed “SAT words” and their definitions. The Math section was just algebra and geometry problems (9th-11th grade normal progression math; those advanced in math took the relevant math courses earlier).
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Actually that is not what their rationale states. Their official rationale is that making it optional leads to their missing “diamond in the rough” applicants, mostly from low income families or Title I schools.
Now we can discuss whether that concern is genuine and whether the remedy solves anything but that’s their rationale.
Data show there’s no difference at graduation between students who went test optional and those who submitted their tests - many highly selective colleges are test optional, some even test blind, and have been for decades or remained so after COVID. Highly selective colleges have the admission processed fine tuned.
It does make a difference for ‘selective but not highly selective’ public universities (think Clemson, UMN, UDel..) that receive tens of thousands of applications and don’t have the staff to spend time on the review - it’s an easy way to cut applicants (ie.,they decide no one with a math score under 600 or 580 gets into Engineering, etc.) And, yes, admitting someone to ‘public flagship engineering’ who scored 430 on math SAT is probably not a good idea.
Very low income applicants (ie., whose parents earn 45k or less for a family of 4) get two waivers. That’s it. They’re also less likely to see their first score as a stepping stone to higher scores and more like a final assessment. So, yes, prepping with multiple retakes is the purview of applicants who are either or both from upper middle class or college educated parents.
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Posts of suspended user creating multiple accounts removed.
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There is a lot of availability in CA, particularly in southern CA, if you book more than one 3-4 months in advance.