Not elite schools, but the U Alabama system (Alabama, UAH, UAB) to transition to test required over the next few years:
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Define elite - ha ha. I’m glad to see. I wish everyone required the SAT, simply because it’s hard to rate schools, rigors, grades, etc. - and it’s an equalizer.
I hope more continue.
It is interesting (and maybe this is an incorrect observation) that at the public school level, the requirement seems more in the south than the north.
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IMO testing policies at publics are being driven by politics in certain states, but alas this isn’t the political thread so I’ll leave it at that. I expect the test score hurdle implemented at Alabama will be relatively low, but time will tell.
For example, at UTK, the min test score for in-state guaranteed admission is ACT 24 (along with 4.0 UT core GPA and EA app.)
I meant no shade with the ‘elite’ comment, this thread (and its title) has just been so focused on the highly rejective schools. 
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For the sake of the discussion in this thread, the Ivy+ (8 ivies, Stanford, MIT, Duke & UChicago), as defined by Opportunity Insights, are the schools that have been proven to give the greatest opportunity to earn in the top 1%, get into elite graduate schools and to work at prestigious firms.
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I was joking …obviously.
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Caltech, Hopkins and Northwestern should be included, imo.
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I thought this was interesting on the usefulness of the SAT, particularly for non-high income students
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In another signal that requirements are becoming more widespread than elite, LSU is introducing requirements in two steps - for 2027 applicants tests are required for students with GPA below 3.5, and for all applicants from 2028.
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That article is paywalled for me, but I’m not surprised to see the Board of Supervisors of another conservative state go back to test required. I doubt this requirement will have much impact on the students they enroll.
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Here’s a highlight for me - as to why:
For students who chose not to submit scores from 2021 to 2024, average retention rates were 4.3% lower and average first-term GPAs were 0.29 points lower than their counterparts who included scores with their application, according to LSU data.
Did it show anything comparing ivy+ to top tier publics? I think that is interesting as more students are making this comparison as the top tier publics continue to gain traction on rankings lists… and anecdotal happiness lists.
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It said pay walled but then let me read it when I refreshed … but I got the key points in the post 
They also mentioned, fwiw, that students who had supplied tests since they went TO had both better college GPAs and better retention rates.
Yes, and it would be interesting to see a full analysis of the data. For example, are the differences in college GPA and retention rates statistically significant? I also hope they adjusted the data for recruited athletes and the movement due to the transfer portal (the transfer portal is really having an impact on some schools’ retention and graduations rates. Maybe the data are statistically significant…as we know some schools’ data have shown a statistically significant difference (Dartmouth IIRC?) and some haven’t (Ithaca, DePaul, Bates.)
Some schools like Bowdoin have many years of data, which I’d also like to see. FWIW leaders at Bowdoin say there is no [statistically significant] GPA difference between those who have applied over the last 50+ years with test scores vs those without (and their sticking with TO supports that.) Maybe their admissions team is just better at picking out students who will do well at their institution. 
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Oh, here’s a non paywalled site. The GPA didn’t look significant to me but retention rate maybe, of course don’t know the underlying stats to know if they are statistically significant.
But according to the university, retention rates for students who were admitted as test-optional applicants from 2021-24 were approximately 4% lower than their peers who submitted test scores. GPAs for those test-optional students were also 0.3 points lower.
We’d have to see all the data. Retention rate is really difficult to get at…obviously LSU is not great with financial aid and enrolls a lot of relatively low income students. Also, just last year, LSU lost 37 football players to the transfer portal…just football. So, take out those who were freshman (Pretty sure they only looked at freshman retention data), and any other freshman athletes who transferred out. That’s probably enough to move the needle on first year retention rate. I have little confidence LSU adjusted for some of these factors. And ultimately the transfer portal is going to impact the 6 year graduation rate too.
This is probably the first time I’ve mentioned Dartmouth and LSU in the same breath, but without releasing the data, I am skeptical. It doesn’t really matter, because they can have the policies they want to have of course. Using unreleased data to support their choices though seems unsavory (to me.)
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Until recently, Louisiana required the ACT in HS.
So it’s safe to say that students who didn’t have a good one, didn’t submit it.
So it makes perfect sense that those who did would have higher GPAs and ultimately a higher retention rate.
TO came about because you couldn’t take the test (in these southern flagships). Now you can, so if you don’t submit, academically you’re not likely as strong as those who did.
I think that relation can easily be inferred.
Does Bowdoin show data by race - i.e. were minority kids getting in at a higher TO clip then white kids? Were they using the TO as a way to enhance minority enrollment over the years? Do you know as I think you’ve seen the data.
thx
Sometimes things ‘make sense’ but the data don’t bear those things out. I am not willing to make that leap without data.
They provided the data. What they don’t mention is major - some majors = lower GPA but I’m guessing students in those majors are more likely to submit a test.
But they gave rationale. It wasn’t because it’s a Southern state. In fact, the state removed the ACT requirement to graduate two years ago.