Why? There’s a massive difference in non-STEM majors. Some of these schools have created very easy programs of study that have little application in the marketplace.
What is the value of an Ivy League degree in basket-making when that same student could have received a free ride to their state school in a practical major.
Because this is College Confidential.
I am not aware of any Ivys that have this major.
Thanks for sharing. For some reason I thought this effort had been abandoned - glad to see that it wasn’t.
Even more problematic than getting them to apply is they have to take a test by the application deadlines.
For kids from lower SES backgrounds an Ivy League education is usually the cheapest possible route to attend college. In addition to free cost of attendance, some schools offer additional funds for other needs these students might have. It certainly dwarfs what most public colleges can offer. In addition, studies indicate the kids from lower SES backgrounds benefit the most from an Ivy+ education, so there is that.
Please explain this.
Our public school definitely does not publish the standardized test range of students.
Also for reference, my son attended a Title 1 school for a majority of his education. The challenges for families and educators are well known to me.
Each school, even Title I schools, should publish a school profile which includes this data. When HS counselors send a student’s transcript and counselor LoR, they should send the school profile.
CollegeBoard’s landscape also has the school’s test range (see the link in my post above). If the student reports an ACT test in their app, Landscape concords that with an SAT score.
Average SAT scores at colleges attended: Average of the median first-year student SAT scores at 4-year colleges attended by the 3 most recent cohorts of college-bound seniors from the applicant’s high school who took any College Board assessments (aggregate College Board and National Student Clearinghouse data). Average SAT scores are calculated using data from the Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System (IPEDS, NCES).
School profiles are sent by the guidance office with official transcripts with the common app. I haven’t heard of any public school that doesn’t provide a profile to colleges. The information includes the school’s grading scale, average test scores, GPA breakout by percentage, summary of class offerings, college attendance rate, etc…
And, many colleges have regional admissions officers who are very familiar with the schools in their area.
Our public high school sends a school profile. It includes GPA brackets, APs offered, etc. It does NOT include standardized test ranges.
Thank you for the explanation. It makes sense for the universities to be able to obtain the data from the testing agencies directly.
Not all schools use Landscape, but I would guess that most highly rejectives do.
It would be of benefit to any Title1 HS (really any HS) to share mid 50% test score range on their school profile. Parents can advocate for changes like that.
Right. Ideally, kids take the test sometime junior year and, then again (if necessary), at the end of the summer before senior year or in the fall of senior year. That takes planning. I’ll also observe that finding a spot to take the August test (ideal because kids haven’t started the school year in many places) can be tricky - S24 had to go an hour away to find an open seat as not many places offer it at that time.
I think you are right to point out we know the pool of 1300+ (let alone 1400+) scorers among disadvantaged students is a small one.
I don’t think that means it is a bad thing colleges like Dartmouth are trying to get more of those people to apply with those test scores. I also think it is possible that a few more such people will jump through the hoops necessary to get those test scores over time, if it becomes better-known the reward would be a free college education at Dartmouth and the like. But even with all that, the total number of people this will help will likely cap out at a very low level.
But it is something. And addressing the bigger picture would require overhauling the US educational system, which is not something Dartmouth can control through its admissions policies.
And for that matter–in the end, Dartmouth and the like are only a tiny part of the US college system. Providing good, affordable college educations to every kid who would benefit from them necessarily has to mostly go through other institutions, not a tiny handful of small private schools.
It is a big something. Context matters. These are the applicants we need at highly selective institutions. Every single one of them. Every applicant like this (either from direct advice or googling incorrect information) who didn’t submit their 1420 is a tragedy. We should work hard not to repeat these mistakes. Applicants like this shouldn’t be passed over because an AO wants to shape a class based on their own personal vision.
Do you have suggestions on A) how to get more of these students to sit for an ACT/SAT and then B) have the courage to apply with a below 25%ile to a test required school (when some of their HS counselors will also be telling the student they don’t support said app)?
Landscape is being used by Yale, another school that is encouraging test submission. I would not be surprised if they go test required in the near future.
I agree Yale will likely go back to test required…and it is getting late to make that decision for Class of 2025. So I hope they do it soon if they are going to do it this year.
Sal Khan, Khan Academy, is a proponent of offering SAT/ACTs during the school day to remove the barrier of having to find a way to get to a testing center on a weekend. I’m not sure if this is offered at some places, but it is not the norm in my state, and would be helpful to many.
This is the problem. The “courage to apply.” Advisors & school leaders throughout the country need to be made to understand that context matters, and this needs to be communicated to their students. It doesn’t seem that hard.
Several states have SAT testing for all students as a regular part of the school day, sometimes requiring it for high school graduation. That seems to ensure almost everyone takes it.