<p>Men and women are different. We aren’t the same except for genitalia (otherwise, we’d all be bi-sexual! lol). Sikorsky mentions that he (a stay at home dad) doesn’t have much in common with SAHMs. That’s because women are different from men. (Uh, why are there a lot more women on CC? )</p>
<p>Yes, there are some men who are better primary caretakers than women. And there are some women who are just lousy at primary caretaking or have little interest in it. However, the nature of women is often better suited to be the full time (or most-time) caretaker of young children, especially very young children.</p>
<p>My BIL is a SAHD, and he’s done an OK job at it…not great, not bad. He was awful when the kids were babies…so bad that he put them in daycare while he stayed home because he hated the time/care that babies demand! LOL…how many SAHMs would get away with that! lol He kept them home after they turned 3.</p>
<p>However, in a variety of ways, there is a HUGE difference between being “a lot more involved” and being a SAHD.</p>
<p>Are you saying society didn’t judge him as much for this admittedly lame behaviour just because he was a dude?</p>
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<p>For some people - their career in science or medicine or whatever gives them more happiness and satisfaction than a relationship where they can no longer do that and have to focus solely on children. I think divorce is certainly not ideal for a person or family, but you have to make choices. That being said, this study is certainly not ideal - the women are being backed into staying home/being part-time and then have to make a choice.</p>
<p>I think people should think about these things before getting married - make sure they have compatible values etc. etc.</p>
Society wouldn’t judge him as a women. You’ve seen the commercials where groups of dads don’t know how to take care of their kids. They’re in movies, too. The dad that doesn’t know go to change the diaper. The dad that puts the clothes on backwards. The dad that has everything, but then forgets the baby. Women are expected to be the “ones who have it together” in the baby raising department. However there are a couple shows Wicked Moms and Modern Dads that challenge this.</p>
<p>My cousin is getting married next week, and initially wouldn’t marry his now-fiancee because he wanted her to finish school first-- they are almost 30, I don’t think she had any serious intentions to finish school at that point, we are not talking about an 18 year old here. She knew she wanted babies immediately and wanted to stay home with them-- why spend the money on a degree she has no intention of using. My cousin wanted them both to work for a few years and build up a nest egg before having kids, and then thought she could stay home with them. I can’t blame him, but at this point they are already nearly 30, he is making big bucks, and there’s no reason they couldn’t/shouldnt have already saved up that nest egg he wanted in the last 10 years they were dating. I believe he proposed conditional to her at least finishing a degree, which she intended to do but I don’t know if she ever actually did. They are hoping to conceive immediately, so I guess the bride is getting her way.</p>
<p>I am kind of impressed that they managed to work this out. A few years ago they were at a complete impasse, but now they seem like a happy couple working together on the same page. I wonder how many couples really discuss this before marriage. We discussed it almost immediately upon moving in together, but it only really came up because I have medical issues and it was obvious to us both very early on that it wasn’t realistic for me to work. I thought I wanted a career for a long time and then changed my mind abruptly-- that could have just as easily happened after I was already married.</p>
I admire your cousing for doing this. It is important for them both to be educated and to hold a degree. My grandparents did this and it really set the standard for education for the generations to come.</p>
<p>*Quote:
My BIL is a SAHD, and he’s done an OK job at it…not great, not bad. He was awful when the kids were babies…so bad that he put them in daycare while he stayed home because he hated the time/care that babies demand!
LOL…how many SAHMs would get away with that! lol He kept them home after they turned 3.</p>
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<p>Are you saying society didn’t judge him as much for this admittedly lame behaviour just because he was a dude?*</p>
<p>Uh yes… while I can’t read people’s minds, I imagine that many people just thought, “well, he’s a guy; he can’t handle the 24/7 neediness of babies”. </p>
<p>We see the same craziness about judging women over how clean their homes are…or how nicely groomed their kids are. If you go into a messy home, the woman is judged (rarely is the hubby judged). If you see kids that are disheveled and not-so-clean, the mom is judged. (I’m not talking about teens, I’m talking about 0-10 or so)</p>
<p>Because my DH is self employed, he had a little more flexibility than I on certain days. I went to nursing school part time; my daughter was 2 years old when I started. She went to a day care center a couple of days a week while I went to class and clinicals. I had to be at my clinical rotation before the day care opened, so DH got our daughter up, fed her, dressed her, and took her to day care on those days. One day early in this process, I went to pick her up after class, and I saw that he had put her dress on backwards! We still laugh about that one.</p>
<p>DH wasn’t a SAHD, but he was very very involved with our girls. I have a lot of respect for SAHDs and SAHMs. I’ve done it (I think I’ve done every combination from SAHM to staying home part time, to working full time) and it is very fulfilling, but completely exhausting as well.</p>
<p>Would someone who really loves you ask you to solely give up your career for children, which he or she presumably knows is extremely important to you? I understand married love is not unconditional love, but I know many parents would ask their children to worry about themselves first, over them. And on that note - is it not foolish to pursue a relationship with someone with who you have such fundamental disagreements? Maybe I’m too technical/INTJ-ish or something. </p>
<p>But yes, that situation is a bit extreme. Everyone compromises.</p>
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<p>Cool. It’s hard to discern tone on the internet, especially on a message board. </p>
<p>@Niquii, Juniormint - good point. I don’t watch too much TV, but yes - it’s usually the dad screwing something up.</p>
<p>^I think there are certain over-used tropes in the media, and clueless Dad is a reliably funny one. Harsh career girl is another one. Aging overweight unlovable woman is another. </p>
<p>People need to create their own path, with out cultural expectations of what a man should or shouldn’t do (same for women).</p>
<p>My married nephew had his own unique solution: the external uterus. It would sit on the counter, growing the baby, and each person would be free to build their own career or do their own thing while the baby sort of…matured. I don’t think he figured out who would take care of it when he got the text that it was ready.</p>
<p>Reading ecouter’s posts reminds me of when I was coming of age in the late 1960s and early 1970s–the period when the first group of women in the current wave of feminism were also coming of age (you know that you were in my generation if you can’t hear “up against the wall” without thinking of what comes next). Most young feminists of that era were the daughters of doctors, lawyers, and Indian chiefs; from the outside at least, their father’s careers looked a lot more interesting than being a SAHM, and in most cases, at 18-21, they couldn’t even imagine wanting kids. Fast forward, life happens, and the world has changed greatly. Some of them have gone on to have very professional distinguished careers, some have been SAHMs, and everything in between. All of them, and all of us, with a few very privileged exceptions, realize that no one get it all, and what you want changes over time.</p>
<p>The point that I would make to ecouter herself is don’t presume to judge until you have had some experieince and have actually been there.</p>
<p>There are fewer SAHMs these days, I think. Especially in some communities. The economics dictate that both parents work, and whoever can earn the most works the most.</p>
<p>I’m sorry if you’re offended - perhaps because of my upbringing, cultural influences, experiences and mentality, certain ideas do not make sense to me and I am quite honest in my desire to explore them. I believe understanding different perspectives makes one a more capable individual. As it appears that people are offended by my ‘naive’ line of questioning, I will refrain from posting any further in this thread.</p>
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<p>Unfortunately, media tropes and cultural stereotypes are really influential. The solution, I suppose is either to ignore them all together or present a variety of stereotypes. I wholeheartedly agree with you, though.</p>
No, don’t do that. I personally saw nothing wrong with your posts. You had genuine an legitimate questions and responses. There will always be someone who does not agree with you. Please, continue posting.</p>
<p>I said this awhile ago:
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<p>Although the media portrays certain things the best thing to do is what is best for your family.</p>
<p>Ecouter11 - your posts are thoughtful and welcome. I hope I didn’t suggest otherwise. I was simply trying to point out that we are all subjected to the same overused “types” which then lodge in our brains as role models, but they are just a TV Writer’s shorthand for “stock recognizable characters who will make you laugh.”</p>
<p>Two women I work with have husbands who stay home with the kids. One couple has a toddler; the DH happened to lose his job right before the baby was born and they’d been wrestling over what to do anyway. The wife is in a professional position, the husband was not. He’s such a great guy and adores their daughter, he’s doing a great job. And the wife is still pumping breastmilk after a year. </p>
<p>The other couple has older kids & they are homeschooled. </p>
<p>I know a lot of other dads who are around a lot, because they work in the music industry and their time is flexible. But I wouldn’t refer to them as SAHD’s in the same way that my co-workers H’s are. </p>
<p>I was a SAHM for about 15 years, although for about 1/2 those years I worked p/t around DH’s and the girl’s schedules, or I was in grad school. I never found it isolating and I chose it because it was easier for me. DH traveled quite a bit and my babysitter made more an hour than I did at my p/t jobs. In my personal parenting circles, I never knew a SAHD. Plenty of SAHM’s at least while the kids were through Kindergarten. </p>
<p>It’s such a personal decision based on micro level details specific to an individual household. And those details can change over a family’s timeline. Plenty of room for lots of variety, as long as those in the family are happy with their choices.</p>
<p>Classof2015, I was talking to another poster who appeared to be offended I 100% agree, with you. Stock characters are fun for a few laughs but it can be quite insidious when we base our reality on them (which is what we inevitably do after being repeatedly exposed). </p>
<p>I dunno if any of you have watched Ms. Representation but it does a really cool bit on media portrayal of women, particularly the “Devil Wears Prada”, “High powered woman” thing.</p>
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I 100% agree, with you. Stock characters are fun for a few laughs but it can be quite insidious when we base our reality on them (which is what we inevitably do after being repeatedly exposed). </p>