@PengsPhils wrote:
and then wrote
Explain the difference between majoring in philosophy then pursuing a MS in computer science and majoring in CS then pursuing a PhD in Philosophy? Sounds strangely equivalent to me.
@PengsPhils, “soft skills” really? Effective communication is an everyday, all the time concept - not something that is rolled out as needed…
Every person/situation is different, and for some that BS/MS model may work. In my case, I plan to go back for my Ph.D. long after my undergrad - in the range of 20-30 years later. Doing the reverse order would not be good for me.
First, the MS in CS would require a lot of remedial work unless you planned and did more than a minor in undergrad - then you’re correct, it would be more equivalent. But if not, that’s at least an extra year of school. The number of years of exposure to CS is also important as a lot of learning you do is done outside the classroom on your own time. To only start in your masters would be another disadvantage.
Most CS majors are ready to work after a BS, so requiring the MS to get to a similar level would be another thing that would not suit many.
I didn’t say “soft skills” weren’t incredibly important - they are. I do use the term because there are indeed developers who lack them nearly entirely and suffer in their career as a result, unable to communicate their technical abilities to others. What I said was silly was to degrade another part of your education in the name of it when you don’t have to.
Nowhere do I disagree. I’m simply saying that you can learn that without going to a LAC.
@PengsPhils - I think it’s clear that we need to stop shaming other people’s choices.
Um, I agree? I have not discussed anyone’s personal choices in anything but their own words as anecdotal evidence. I said that the quoted advice was not good generally. Nowhere am I shaming anyone’s choices…
Edit: wording clarification
@PengsPhils, everyone’s path is theirs alone - enjoy the journey.
I agree completely. My post is directly in response to the idea that you can’t get a liberal arts education outside of a LAC while doing CS, in that exact spirit that everyone’s path is different and which is better is entirely dependent on the person taking it.
Actual question because I am confused as to the source of the last two comments - where do my posts shames the choices of others? That was not my intention in the slightest and I can’t see where that interpretation is being drawn, and obviously want to fix that miscommunication. @Chembiodad @circuitrider
I actually can take a lot from the discussions involving not only the liberal arts but the paths taken and suggestions and ideas regarding CS in the future. Reading other posts on CC have certainly also showed me that people in the know or in the business have varying thoughts and there is certainly no consensus as to the best colleges, route, programs, BA vs BS, and future to say the least.
I can’t speak for @Chembiodad , but, in my case, at post #100, I did use the word, “we” as in “We ALL need to stop shaming other people’s choices.” 
Gotcha. To me, that implied that a recent post was doing so. Good to know, thanks.
@PengsPhils, those that you mention in Post #102 are the ones I am referring to; these are the ones that will forever live their lives in cubes unless they are able to learn to communicate effectively - it doesn’t matter so much where they learn the skill, just that they learn it.
Nobody in the software business uses the term “coder”.
Nobody I know in the software industry calls themself a “Computer Scientist” or has a job title of “Computer Scientist”, even if they have a computer science degree. If you get a CS degree, you’re almost invariably going to end up as a programmer/software engineer.
The terms programmer and software engineer are used interchangeably. Software engineer is simply the updated term for programmer. When people ask me what I do for a living, I say “programmer”, even though my job classification is often, “software engineer”.
On the contrary, @PengsPhils , you had me at:
For whatever reason, the US BLS defines different job categories for
- 15-1131 Computer Programmers
- 15-1132 Software Developers, Applications
- 15-1133 Software Developers, Systems Software
The BLS definitions indicate that they do not believe that “computer programmers” do any design or specification work that “software developers” do. Whether any particular employer actually uses both titles and uses the BLS distinction as a distinction between them is another matter entirely.
Because that’s where op got the advice that he questioned in starting this topic.
Can I ask a different but very related question? It is mentioned a couple times in the discussion that there are LACs with insufficient CS depth. It seems to imply that there are LACs with sufficient CS courses. Can someone give some pointers on the best LACs for CS majors?
Harvey Mudd is a given. What else?
I’ve never thought that determining the quality of CS at liberal arts colleges had much to do with number of courses offered. You can only take so many courses while you’re in school, so as long as you get to take the core courses and some electives you’re interested in, you should be set.
It’s like saying a restaurant with 50 items on the menu is better than one with 30 items on the menu, when you only get to choose 3.
I have to agree with @simba9. There’s been a tremendous demand for - let’s call them programmers for the sake of discussion - over the space of the last two decades and the top LACs have stepped up to meet that demand. Most have built out their departments to include a wide range of popular topics including, cryptography, databases, AI, game theory etc… Most are going to lean more toward the mathematical aspects of computing because that’s an easy way to build out two departments at once. Are their students going to have as many choices available to them as an MIT student? Of course not. But, not many of them would want to go to MIT in the first place.
So out of curiosity are some of you now advocating for a CS major to opt for a BA vs BS if given the option? Since CS is dominated by one’s undergraduate education, would it make sense to choose a Princeton or Brown in what seems to be a happy medium between a LA and large research university?