Original post goal to find engineering programs outside the top tier - but UofM and Northwestern repeated. This leads me to believe you are willing to pay OOS or increased tuition only for a school w/top engineering + top overall university ranking.
If that’s the case, then I’d do a cross search for those two criteria. Otherwise, you will have a hard time beating tuition f/UArizona or AZState. In recent years, their tuition rates, even for high stats OOS students, are hard to beat for engineering & ROI.
If you’re willing to pay OOS for top engineering in the midwest/great-lakes, I’d certainly consider UIUC. In our case, in- state & S is a junior CompE who loves the campus and finds it to be a collaborative environment. Coming out of sophomore year, this past summer he had a lucrative full time internship and they’re keeping him on board (of course minimized hrs.) during the academic year. This is also the case w/his friends. I only mention this based on your ROI consideration. Also only an anecdotal example, but then that’s what most posts on the site are comprised of.
Also:
UWisconsin & UMinnesota: Top tier engineering & absolute beautiful campuses; perfect blend of urban/outdoorsy.
Iowa State & Ohio State: Top tier engineering and noteworthy OOS scholarships.
I am actually helping a friends daughter with the same questions OOS…but she has seen the campus. Just have to get accepted now.
As far as the 2 campuses I think this gets way overblown. I also think it’s what people are used to . We live in the city of Chicago. Kids take buses to trains to go to school. My kids one way was 30-45 minutes depending going to high school. . Going from North to Central is 15-20 depending. So for my kid it was a time “saver” …LOL…If you not used to taking mass transit then you will see people complain. But once your in engineering you also don’t have to live on North campus. My son did but many of his friends had apartments on Central . My son also worked, ran a student org, and almost all his activities after freshman year were on North campus so it just made more sense for him. It nice there since it’s very quiet and you see deer on your way to classes (non-covid).
@Ladadof3 Appreciate you chiming in…mental health is very important. That is why I crossed off Harvey Mudd off of our list. As it turns out my son does not want to go to California anyways…
Olin is a pretty special place. The kids I know that went there had amazing experiences and got incredible opportunities (one is getting a PhD at Columbia and the other is at small start-up.
“NW can be a pressure cooker and same with WashU if he doesn’t want that”
I don’t think either are pressure cookers, depending on your definition of pressure cooker. I know a few NW alums and none of them have said it’s a pressure cooker. They said the quarter system does take getting used to. Purdue and UM are known more as being pressure cookers, esp the first two years of engineering requirements.
My D would not describe Purdue as a pressure cooker at all. It’s been a very collaborative and supportive environment. Courses are challenging for sure but lots of help available.
If Michigan, engineering majors are not under GPA pressure beyond 2.0 GPA and C grades in their prerequisites. If Minnesota, students in the College of Science and Engineering need a 3.2 GPA to assure admission to any engineering major, but most majors are not capacity limited and admit down to 2.0 GPA. Or do you mean Maine, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, or Montana?
Well we will all point out that our favorite schools are not pressure cookers. My son tells me in Michigan engineering that even the easy classes are hard…LOL…pressure cooker…no. As stated above it seems kids work together and are often teamed up on projects etc. There is an abundance of help if one needs it.
@ucbalumnus . I sometimes laugh at these grade points. At Michigans open house a few years ago they keep stating that getting a B there is like getting an A just about anywhere else and that kids that had 4.0 and 34 ACT’s that none of that mattered. They will get their first C and many classes will seem very tough…I think this was a warning to the parents and not the kids…LOL
Most college students earn lower grades in college than in high school.
For example, the most selective colleges will admit students with 4.0 HS GPAs but spread them across the 3.0 to 4.0 range for college GPA.
Colleges overall enroll students with ~3.0 to 4.0 HS GPAs and spread them across the 2.0 to 4.0 range for college GPA (though some fall below 2.0 and flunk out).
http://www.gradeinflation.com/ indicates that Michigan’s average GPA in 2015 was 3.37. This is higher than at UCB (3.29 in 2014), UCLA (3.27), NCSU (3.11), Minnesota (3.21 in 2013), Wisconsin (3.25 in 2014), Virginia Tech (3.15), Illinois (3.25), Purdue (3.09 in 2012), Texas (3.22 in 2014), Texas A&M (3.08 in 2012), Georgia Tech (3.25 in 2014).
Michigan is probably not stressful in terms of grade pressure for engineering students, since the secondary admission process has minimal criteria (C grades / 2.0 GPA), and grade inflation appears to be fairly high. Of course, engineering majors are rigorous generally, but that applies to all colleges (even though a few may add extra rigor).
"Courses are challenging for sure but lots of help available. "
Purdue’s 4 yr grad rate is 55% and 6-year is 80%, even with co-op, there’s some weed out happening. 80% isn’t bad for a public school but now you’re paying for two more years, unless you went co-op in case you could use the money you made.
UM, meant Michigan.
“As stated above it seems kids work together and are often teamed up on projects etc.”
Unless they’re taking the tests together, there’s still going to be a curve for the individuals at place like UM. You can’t have it both ways, the reason UM and Purdue degrees have the respect they do is because of the rigor of the curriculum.
No question. Maybe I didn’t understand but yes large curves in some classes. Rigor…absolutely!!! I was just relating that it’s not cut throat. Students are working together and helping each other out etc etc. At least the experiences that I see from many people going there. YMMV
Keep in mind the 4-6 year rates can be slightly confusing. Many do have paid co-ops or internships that can run a semester to a year and add time. You need 128 at the minimum to graduate in engineering and some students want that extra semester for various reasons. There are also 5 year programs to get a BS/MS and not sure if that is counted in there. Just curious if the above numbers are for the whole school or just engineering. I am at work and don’t have time now to look…thx
The retention rate for engineering at Purdue is well above 90% according to the CoE. More than 1/3 of students co-op. I wish they would break out the graduation rate in terms of semesters instead of years. My d will take the standard 8 semesters to graduate but 5 years in tracking statistics which is misleading. It adds $0 cost to co-op.
Rigorous is not the same as cut throat. I’d bet money that most abet accredited programs are rigorous. If you don’t want high rigor, engineering isnt for you.
PS. The grading curves are a help not a hinderance at Purdue.
"Just curious if the above numbers are for the whole school or just engineering. I am at work and don’t have time now to look…thx:
It’s the whole school, just a quick google search.
"The retention rate for engineering at Purdue is well above 90% according to the CoE.:
Ok, if you’re a prospective student or parent, you’d probably google Purdue grad rate, you’d get 76.1% headline and below that 49.1%. The retention rate is first to second year, not grad rates. People will believe google over what the school says, any school.
Above are the retention and graduation rates for engineering for Purdue. Again note that coop students are in the five and six year rates which is misleading.
CoE says the continued improvement in retention and graduation rates is two fold - higher level of students entering the program, combined with a concerted effort for more academic supports. They know they are admitting students who can succeed. For D’s class the ave gpa was 3.9 and mid point of the ACT 33.
Purdue has a host of living/learning communities for engineering. Tutoring is available on site in those communities. All intro courses have their own help rooms where anyone can walk in for extra assistance. Study sessions, office hours , recitations, exam review sessions, are part of every class at every level.
