<p>I think it’s a great idea for all HS and college students, especially athletes and clubs, frats and sororities.</p>
<p>Completely on board. Start with middle school though.</p>
<p>I think it is a terrible idea if it doesn’t begin with teaching that there is an obligation to report criminal behavior to law enforcement authorities before talking to anyone, especially school personnel or coaches, about it. </p>
<p>And most of the materials I have seen don’t even mention that rape and sexual assault are crimes.</p>
<p>Well…this is a bit different. The petition is to make high school COACHES take such a course about what they can do to prevent their players from getting involved in messes like Steubenville. </p>
<p>This is aimed at PREVENTION. It’s not about what to do after someone is assaulted</p>
<p>And, mini, your objection is easily overcome. Include that info in the materials the coaches are taught.</p>
<p>The best thing they can do to prevent most of their players from committing criminal acts is to immediately report those who do to the police.</p>
<p>Agree mandatory reporting must be trained to all coaches, advisors and teachers, with emphasis that these are crimes. Also believe training should start young–preschool and on up. Sad but important.</p>
<p>Prevention is an excellent focus.</p>
<p>The photos and videos would fall under HI’s mandatory reporting law covering school employees and the athletic staff. Will see what Grand Jury decides to do with WV law.</p>
<p>“Officials in India suggested that a Swiss tourist and her husband are partially to blame for an alleged attack and gang rape in a remote wooded area in Madhya Pradesh last week. They said the couple did not inquire about the safety of the region.”“No one stops there," Budholiya said. “Why did they choose that place? They were in the wrong place at the wrong time."</p>
<p>Yep, the couple is being blamed because they were in Madhya Pradeshn which has the highest rate of crime against women.</p>
<p>Seems incomprehensible that law enforcement and officials in India would actually say these things. But it’s similar to what we are hearing about the victim in Steubenville.</p>
<p>At least there no death threats publicized against them and they’re not being ostracized by their community, unlike the victim and her family in WV. </p>
<p>It is awful that making a choice on where you go while being a tourist can have police partially blaming you for being assaulted and gang raped. Scary world when victims keep being blamed, including by the very people who are supposed to enforce the law.</p>
<p>There have calls for the resignation of the official who blamed the victims. Will see what happens.</p>
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</p>
<p>Is being plain wrong the “expert’s” fault or CNN’s fault? The reason CNN would have an expert on is precisely because CNN is not an expert on the laws of every state. CNN isn’t responsible for the error of the expert unless you can show CNN knew the expert wasn’t a real expert or CNN had other experts who told CNN the correct information and CNN disregarded it. It’s always fun to slam the media, but CNN’s reporting was appropriate and “breaking news” in this case.</p>
<p>Criminals, by definition, are not law-abiding, moral people. Efforts to prevent crime by “teaching rapists not to rape” and thieves not to steal are unlikely to be very effective for that reason–unless, perhaps, you can reach at risk young people before they fully embark on the criminal road, such as through the sort of school programs mentioned above. Barring that, there has to be swift and strong punishment as a deterrent, as well as efforts to eliminate the root causes of crime. These include poverty, lack of education, lack of parental involvement and discipline, etc. </p>
<p>In addition, it is completely appropriate to teach people how not to become victims. There simply are places and situations that should be avoided. You can say, “But why shouldn’t I be able to do this or go there? I shouldn’t have to worry about being attacked/raped/mugged/ etc.” Sure, in a perfect world you shouldn’t, but we don’t live in a perfect worlds. Criminals aren’t going to respect your expressed right to do whatever you want, wherever you want. They’re malevolent opportunists. Your responsibliity is to avoid providing them opportunity, such as by walking right into their “house” or by drinking yourself unconscious. People are still victimized despite precautions–we know that. But it really needs to be stressed that alcohol consumption is responsible for a boatload of problems in young people.</p>
<p>Hugs to all of the victims. You have to wonder how many men walking around today have gotten away with rape, and whether some of the defenders of the young men were in that category.</p>
<p>Mini, I appreciate your frank posts.</p>
<p>I also appreciate Mini’s posts. He’s always wise and his opinions are evidence based.</p>
<p>I admit, with some shame, that although I was aware of the rape culture issue, I was not appreciative of how widespread this problem is. After reading many accounts on cc and the comments on the NYTs and Steubenville newspaper site I’m not in denial anymore. I also remembered a number of stories from people in my life who were raped or groped or hassled in some entirely inappropriate way. </p>
<p>So now what? What can be done to change this culture?</p>
<p>WOW! Coach and owner of house to be investigated. </p>
<p>“According to trial testimony, one of the two football players said the coach knew about what happened and ‘took care of it.’”</p>
<p>"DeWine said coaches are among officials required by state law to report suspected child abuse. "</p>
<p>"It’s unclear what could happen to the school’s sports programs if coaches were charged. Sanctions against teams or programs typically involve violations of rules related to playing, such as improper recruiting of student-athletes or playing ineligible athletes, said Tim Stried, spokesman for the Ohio High School Athletic Association.</p>
<p>‘The incident that happened was not during a contest, was not even at school. No playing rules were violated, and it didn’t have anything to do with eligibility or recruiting,’ Stried said."</p>
<p>[Ohio</a> AG could target football coach, host of party](<a href=“http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-ag-could-target-football-coach-host-party-203958324--spt.html]Ohio”>http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-ag-could-target-football-coach-host-party-203958324--spt.html)</p>
<p>Add me to the list of those that were assaulted in college. I did get counseling and never blamed myself, but I was encouraged by the Dean to NOT report to the local police. The schools want to keep crime reports out of the public records. The guy was a star athlete. Never missed a game, never lost his financial aid, and - here comes the best part - got to be an RA the following year. I must have really been traumatized and convinced by the Dean and school counselor that it was “better” to move on to go along with their advice. Now I realize that I should have reported to the city police and raised a stink about the RA position.</p>
<p>GFG - please clarify: do you think it is “less of a rape” if the girl is not sober? For the record, my situation happened in the light of day and there was no alcohol. However, even if it had occurred at a frat party and if I and been drinking, it still would have been rape and the guy a sexual predator.</p>
<p>rvm - have you considered couseling? Even years later, it might be helpful. As others have said, sexual assault is about power and it can be a very complicated recovery for the victim. I am sorry you had the experience. I admire you for being a part of this discussion and being willing to hear all sides of the conversation. </p>
<p>Perhaps we want to believe that this could not happen to our daughters so that is why we seek to find fault with the victim’s choices (my daughter would not get drunk, my daughter avoids THOSE parties, my daughter knows to stay with a girlfirend, so she will be safe). I will say it again: the girl is the victim even if she could have made some better choices! Do not mitigate the seriousness of the crime by blaming the victim.</p>
<p>OhioMom, are you sure the coach was the host? I read that as meaning going after the coach, and the host, as two separate items.</p>
<p>I see your edit now, so nevermind</p>
<p>As a Unitarian Universalist, I share a commitment to a set of principles, the first of which affirms “the inherent worth and dignity of every person.”</p>
<p>In my view, raising children with this as the center of their ethical, moral, and spiritual life goes a long way towards ensuring that they will neither commit nor tolerate crimes against others.</p>
<p>There has been a lot of talk about fraternities on this thread. My S belonged to a fraternity at Dartmouth. During his time there, his house forcibly de-recognized two people: one was found to be stealing from the brothers, the other behaved inappropriately towards women. (I don’t have the impression that his actions ever actually rose to the level of rape, but everyone else obviously felt uncomfortable with his apparent willingness to take advantage of the vulnerable.) His house was extremely diverse in all ways. </p>
<p>It is also, interestingly, one of the houses that is considered low on the social ladder. The houses highest on the social ladder are the stereotypical jock groups. (There is apparently also a significantly higher percentage of prep school graduates at those places.) Some of those houses are KNOWN to participate in what we call “rape culture.” People openly make wisecracks about their reputation for “date rape drugs.” </p>
<p>And yet many of the young women of Dartmouth, a highly intelligent and accomplished group if ever there was, continue to flock to them.</p>
<p>Women are now 50% of the student body there. Yes, because of the fact that there are more frats than sororities and coed houses, and because national sororities are not allowed to have parties at which alcohol is served, frats continue to dominate the social space. In one of the threads that Sally referenced, I asked why more of the powerful young women of Dartmouth did not take matters into their own hands and simply REFUSE TO GO to houses where they were not treated with respect. (Some, of course, do.) The student responded to the effect that your average 18-21 yr old girl would rather be liked than viewed as a “feminazi witch.” I responded, “Well, then it’s back to the lavender and pink section of the toy store.”</p>
<p>Yes, it is important to prosecute criminals, and I fully agree with the advice to call the police before the campus authorities when rape occurs. </p>
<p>But I would like to see a cultural shift. I’d like to see people looked at as whole individuals, with innate worth. As long as kids are raised in a noxious soup of media that glorifies violence and power over others, while emphasizing appearance over character, the sexualization of pubescents, and might makes right, we can expect to see the rape culture continue to flourish. And, perhaps most depressingly, we can continue to see the VICTIMS of rape culture continue to buy into its value system.</p>
<p>ETA: For the record, although he was very fond of his house and it helped him develop significantly in several ways, S thinks that D should abolish frats.</p>
<p>I dont think frats have to be a problem, but neither one of my kids schools had them.
One was an LAC which also didnt have a football team and the other a mid sized state university opted to drop football a few years ago for monetary reasons.</p>
<p>The oldests high school also didnt have football, ( but have won state championships in other sports like cross country & soccer). Youngests high school has football but it is kind of a joke, their state championships are in basketball, but they get more recognition for their music programs, like the jazz band & drumline.</p>
<p>I think organized sports are an important part of education, but I dont follow football and so dont really understand the dynamic that seems to be between the football team & the community.</p>
<p>consolation, I tend to agree with you on these matters, as you know, and have raised two daughters who would rather be seen as assertive and strong than “liked” by young men who are disrespectful.</p>
<p>When the choice is to be labeled a feminazi or to be disrespected, that is really unfortunate.</p>
<p>I recently heard an interview with the woman on the board at facebook and she said, “For one thing, I’d like to see every girl who is called bossy be told she has natural leadership qualities, instead.” That really struck a chord with me.</p>
<p>I’m very much a feminist and I raised two bossy daughters. I brought this bossy vs. leadership up with some of youngest’s guy friends who were over playing FIFA with her over spring break. They laughed and agreed and said they’d never thought of it that way but it was true that D is bossy and that they would never call a guy bossy, but they didn’t like girls who aren’t bossy. There you have it.</p>
<p>My daughters don’t choose to go to places where the men are disrespectful towards women, but I still think our institutions have a responsibility not to harbor criminals and sexual predators, to punish them and to pursue as a safe a campus environment as possible for all of their students.</p>
<p>With the exception of a few tech schools in this country, women make up way more than half the college population and the administrations, like the coaches in Steubenville, need to stop fostering an environment that allows this to go on. </p>
<p>It’s interesting that your son thinks Dartmouth should do away with fraternities. Some of us believe that UNC should stop recognizing the greek system and let it go. It’s an interesting cross roads we are at.</p>
<p>Also, let me add this: </p>
<p>The most rapes on college campuses occur in the first week of school. The victims are new students.</p>
<p>How are they even supposed to know where the criminals and disrespectful men are harbored in the first week? </p>
<p>A student has a right to walk onto a campus and assume that the parties will be safe and the kids will be fun and it will be nice to get to know people. Instead, we have to send our daughters off to school with dire warnings and lists of things they should not do?</p>
<p>I just don’t think the emphasis needs to be on the girls, anymore. To some extent, a large extent, imho, the university bears responsibility for screening for this, and for having an honor code as strong about behavior towards others as it is towards plagiarism. Nobody ever got PTSD or committed suicide because somebody plagiarized.</p>
<p>Just my opinion.</p>