<p>I understand what you are saying, zoosermom, but I am not in any way interested in marginalizing men, and neither are my daughters. We happen to like men around here.</p>
<p>My husband is a feminist. In a field where women have been marginalized, he has always worked hard to make sure the women in his department are paid the same as the men. He also played hockey and hunts. Nobody around my house is too into “boxes.”</p>
<p>I see your point and agree zoosermom, every person should define her/himself. </p>
<p>I still don’t understand the negative connotation attributed to feminism however? You seem to think feminism creates negative outcomes for boys/men, I’d like to learn more about how you see that happening.</p>
<p>and I have seen subtle bullying in the workplace towards women engineers, (don’t know if they personally define themselves as feminists) who speak out about wanting more projects/credit etc. they are labeled and made to feel like “difficult types” because they want full involvement.</p>
<p>Poetgrl, my statement was in no way an attack on you, it was a personal statement of my beliefs. I completely respect your husband’s perspective. I wouldn’t want everyone to hold my exact views. How boring and limiting that would be.</p>
<p>My daughter is a college student and she has learned recently that on some campuses anyone who doesn’t identify as a feminist and hold certain views is open to the same level of bulling as being called a feminazi. There are people on all sides of the spectrum who are uncomfortable with differing points of view. That is unfortunate.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with the hard line bullying that sometimes occurs in academia around some of these issues. Believe me, the fact that my husband hunts might well disqualifiy him.</p>
<p>I decided five years ago that I would openly call myself a feminist as an objection to the feminazi label. Up til then, I wasn’t much of a one to say a thing about it one way or the other. </p>
<p>But, I don’t find you as attacking me. Just chatting about a loaded word and what it means to different people. Always interesting to me.</p>
<p>I give the parents of the young girl a lot of credit for hoe they have comported themselves and for trying to educate others. I can say with absolute certainty that if my daughter had been assaulted and the perp was identified, my husband, having been raised a proud goombah, would have reacted with violence. I know that like I know my own name.</p>
<p>I was talking to my son about this yesterday and he hadn’t understood that rape could include other than intercourse. That was a good lesson for him to learn and one that I wouldn’t have thought of. My natural inclination would be to believe that having been taught to “keep your hands to your own body” since early childhood would be enough, but of course it isn’t.</p>
<p>But the I was the same person who, because hubby and I don’t drink, never thought to tell our daughter that alcohol cut with water is still alcohol and that almost kills her.</p>
<p>Certain young college women’s refusal to identify themselves as ‘feminists’ is a testament to how successful the movement has been. They can’t relate to the days when the very idea of a woman in college was radical, and they usually don’t know that it wasn’t so long ago that a single woman couldn’t get a loan for a house no matter that she had a steady, good job. Feminists fought for - and achieved - rights and a way of life these young women can’t even imagine as one having been an issue. It’s like not identifying yourself as a suffragette in the century after women got the vote. </p>
<p>I think some of us older feminists should enlighten these sweet young things that their lives would be a lot less sweet without feminism they refuse to identify with ;)</p>
<p>You don’t know anything about my sweet young thing, Katliamom, and that tone seems very disrespectful and condescending to other women, like myself, who are not young and worked very hard in difficult circumstances. I was a pretty young thing working on Wall Street in the early 80s, which was the Wild West. I have been molested in the workplace and faced all sorts of discrimination. I am still not a feminist and there is nothing you could teach me other than your personal experiences, which are no more valid than mine.</p>
<p>Kat, I do identify as a feminist and I’m in that generation that you’re referring to and I find that offensive. I fight to ensure that women can label themselves anything they want. That’s feminism to me. Having choices, even if that means choosing not to label yourself x, y, or z.</p>
<p>In 1972, Afghanistan had a higher percentage of female students in its universities than the U.S. did.</p>
<p>Thank heavens for feminism!</p>
<p>(Now back to our regularly scheduled programming…)</p>
<p>Both my daughters I daresay would consider themselves feminists, although they may not consider me one. ( I share my last name with my husband)</p>
<p>I am not ashamed of the word however and I don’t understand why some people who agree with me on political/social/ economic issues regarding women & girls, deny that they are feminists.
</p>
<p>Update from Steubenville:</p>
<p>[Lessons</a> for all to learn - Steubenville, Wintersville, Toronto, Mingo, Weirton, Jefferson County | News, Sports, Jobs, HeraldStarOnline.com](<a href=“http://www.hsconnect.com/page/content.detail/id/584379/Lessons-for-all-to-learn.html?nav=5010]Lessons”>http://www.hsconnect.com/page/content.detail/id/584379/Lessons-for-all-to-learn.html?nav=5010)</p>
<p>Because feminism excludes boys and in 2013 we have too many boys who aren’t graduating high school or going to college or taking their places in society. That is not a good thing for women, either, because many women want to marry men and every woman is fathered by one.</p>
<p>zoosermom: How do you define feminism?</p>
<p>I don’t think feminism excludes boys and men. I define myself as a feminist because my life has been made up of a series of deliberate choices I have made. I wanted to be married. I wanted to be a SAHM. I chose a husband who supported me in my choices. He is a feminist. I raised feminist sons. I certainly know a lot of people, male and female, who believe I can’t be a “real” feminist because of my choices.</p>
<p>[Review</a> Essay of Linda M. Scott’s Fresh Lipstick: Redressing Fashion and Feminism | Marc A. Ouellette - Academia.edu](<a href=“(PDF) Review Essay of Linda M. Scott's Fresh Lipstick: Redressing Fashion and Feminism | Marc A. Ouellette - Academia.edu”>(PDF) Review Essay of Linda M. Scott's Fresh Lipstick: Redressing Fashion and Feminism | Marc A. Ouellette - Academia.edu)</p>
<p>I found this book interesting. It sort of argues that from the earliest suffragettes, women from privileged backgrounds have been telling working class women how they should be living - and that this is the antithesis of feminism.</p>
<p>hunting family supporting gun control = that’s us :)</p>
<p>I think the definition of feminism is the issue here. We all have our own defintion which is based on our experiences. I don’t agree that feminism excludes men. My son, husband, etc. fit into my definition of feminism (equal rights). </p>
<p>I don’t make the connection between wanting equality for our daughters meaning that we want less for our sons. I have one of each, btw, and hope for equal access and opportunity for each. </p>
<p>I respect everyone’s right to accept the label or not. I am discouraged it carries a negative connotation, though. I am grateful for the women that came before me and happy to follow in their footsteps.</p>
<p>from Merriam-Webster-Feminism=the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes</p>
<p>not to belabor this, but feminism has never sought to exclude boys.</p>
<p>I never thought of feminism as being negative or as excluding others. I think the term has been co-opted by some segments to make political points.</p>
<p>I agree feminism has never excluded boys/men other than the extremist sectors.
Increasing respect and options for women & girls, benefits everyone.</p>
<p>Quote:
my husband, having been raised a proud goombah, would have reacted with violence.</p>
<p>You mean you actually use this disrespectful phrase when speaking of your own husband!?
Um, excuse me, talk about offensive language… All Italian-American men are violent, have affairs, are mobsters, drug dealers, wife-abusers… Zoosermom, your tone is very disrespectful and condescending. You are fully aware that Italian (your words: ) “men have been marginalized, demonized” by the media, and now, you? @#%&*!!!</p>
<p>Definition (urban dictionary) :</p>
<p>goombah </p>
<p>An American-Italian slang word for someone who is Italian (origin:a God Father)- Currently also means any male Italian in a derogatory way.</p>
<p>Your words again:
name calling and bullying is abusive no matter who is doing it or why.
Except, apparently, for you, Zoosermom.</p>
<p>I’ll calm down now. Even if you don’t apologize.</p>
<p>Feminism means that gender will not determine fate, options, opportunities, legal standing. It will not advantage nor disadvantage. It will not limit, enhance, nor privilege. The right of privacy has nothing to do with gender.</p>
<p>“Rockvillemom, may you feel this enormous virtual hug!”</p>
<p>I hope so too.</p>
<p>Re CNN, I think they handled it poorly, but that there’s a kernel of truth in there. That kernel is, when these boys hurt the victim, they also hurt themselves. That would be true even if they had not been caught or prosecuted. It’s bad for the human psyche and soul to commit an act like this. The rapists threw three young lives into chaos, and I am sad about all three of them for different reasons. It’s a shame that CNN made it seem like the verdict/sentence was the tipping point for that chaos, rather than the rape.</p>