<p>“Does the girl and her family bear any responsibility for what happened?”</p>
<p>The girl bears responsibility for getting drunk, not for getting raped. That’s a crucial distinction. She put her health at risk by drinking to the point that she could easily have choked on her vomit or gotten alcohol poisoning. It’s a public health problem that young people do that. Whatever adult obtained the alcohol for this minor also has some culpability for the drinking.</p>
<p>But the rape is 100% the fault and responsibility of the rapists, with a few extra notes of blame for the parents and mentors who may have failed to teach them common decency.</p>
<p>If you’re asking whether both our daughters and our sons need to learn from this incident, then I agree that the answer is yes.</p>
<p>She bears the responsibility for drinking so much that she passed out. However, it should not follow that passed out = now raped, now photographed, now dragged from place to place while naked and unconscious. Rather than victimizing her, the teen boys should have helped her by calling for help or getting her to a hospital. The fact that the first thing that occurred to them to do in this scenario was to repeatedly sexually assault her is almost beyond comprehension. They chose to behave like predatory animals, and now that they have been found guilty in a court of law, they will forever carry the label of rapists.</p>
<p>In answer to your question, her behavior made her vulnerable, not “responsible” in any way for what happened.</p>
<p>Inherent in that statement is blaming the young girls. There is absolutely nothing a young girl can do, alone or in a group, to invite rape. </p>
<p>I think the problem is two fold. There is the acceptance of the rape culture that leads to the act but there is also the culture that leads the wrong-doers to believe they will escape punishment and shame and be protected by those seeking to protect, in this case, football.</p>
<p>I’m not suggesting what the boys did was justified. I am glad they were found guilty. What I’m trying to discuss - with little success - is that just as boys need to be better educated on the risks of mixing alcohol and sexual activity, girls need to be educated on how to avoid risky situations.</p>
<p>She was already drunk when she left the party she was at, where she had some girlfriends. She willingly left in a car with 3 boys she knew slightly, who had also been drinking. In the light of day, was this a good decision? </p>
<p>What if she had an agreement with her parents that if she ever found herself having had too much to drink, they would come and get her - with no punishment.</p>
<p>It’s a form of street smarts. When students arrive at college, they are told not to walk alone at night. Now if someone does walk alone and is mugged for their phone, it’s not their fault, but, they could have shown better judgment. </p>
<p>Frankly, she might want to consider herself lucky to be alive. What if there had been a car crash? Or she had died of alcohol poisoning?</p>
<p>There are so many incidents like this one, in any town, on any college campus, where drunk kids make bad decisions. I think it is overly simplistic to blame the parents or the sports culture. In my opinion, we need to work on decision making skills and the ability to see future consequences with our kids.</p>
<p>The girl is responsible for getting drunk, IF she was only drunk and not ruffied. There was some suggestion she may have been ruffied, though ruffies are used because they are out of the system so quickly and very difficult to detect.</p>
<p>As I said upthread, you can only say a girl is responsible for her rape if you believe any man who passes out in a bar and gets murdered is responsible for his own murder.</p>
<p>The boys, Tom, were not drunk. They were carrying the girl around. There were other boys there who told them they didn’t think they should be doing this. That line of thinking isn’t going to work here.</p>
<p>I agree with what Jonri said up-thread about granting immunity for drug and alcohol possession to anyone who calls about the crime. I think its important to empower our young people to do the right thing without fear of reprisal for lesser acts like drinking.</p>
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<p>I liked what the men were saying on that show linked above about the fact that we just aren’t talking to boys about how to respect women anymore, and the fact that we treat this as a “woman’s issue” when it is a people issue. I see this more as a failure of our culture towards women than as a failure of our daughters to “be more careful.”</p>
<p>Yes, they can be more careful. But if there was a mugging and theft problem where that many men were being physically assaulted when they were drinking at parties, I don’t think we would be blaming the guys who were assaulted.</p>
<p>No, but it should have absolutely no bearing on the criminal case or punishment. It’s irrelevant here.</p>
<p>As the mother of two young women, I think it’s important to discuss ways to lessen their vulnerability. But it’s not because they would be in any way responsible for a bad outcome, more that unfortunately the world is full of conscienceless pigs who think nothing of making prey out of the weak and vulnerable.</p>
<p>If a group of fraternity boys hazes a young man until he dies? Or, maybe a marching band or a swim team or whatnot hazes a young man until he dies? </p>
<p>Nobody ever suggests that that boy WANTED to be hazed to death. They see it as a failure of the Lord of the Flies group and reprisals are made.</p>
<p>The same is true of situations like this. I hate that line of thinking, even though I educated my daughters relentlessly on this issue.</p>
<p>I agree 100% about granting immunity for drug/alcohol possession for anyone who calls the police to report a crime. That’s one of the aspects of this case that is so troubling - the number of kids who watched and/or took pictures, but did nothing to help her.</p>
<p>I’m not suggesting that her poor decisions should have had any bearing on the prosecution of the boys or the outcome of the trial. Again, I am glad they were found guilty.</p>
<p>What I am picturing is this case being discussed in homes around the country, with parents asking their kids what the girl could have done differently, what her friends might have done, what other bystanders could have or should have done. Use it as a teaching tool. Use it to open up a discussion.</p>
<p>I’m glad they were found guilty. I think it will be interesting to see if more charges are filed against anyone else involved. I would think the people who owned the house where the rape happened should bear some responsiblity.</p>
<p>Great point. How bizarre is that situation? She is being raped in the bsmt of a home of a teen boy - where was that family? Were they home? Did they know there were kids in their bsmt? Steubenville is not a town of huge homes. If the parents were in bed, were they unaware of where their son was and who he was with? How could these parents be so irresponsible?</p>
<p>Both boys were allowed to speak and apologize. Mays said, “I would truly like to apologize. No pictures should have been sent around, let alone have been taken.”</p>
<p>Sorry, but that is so woefully inadequate. I’m just sitting here shaking my head after seeing that on CNN.</p>
<p>I am very glad that the girl lived to tell. Alcohol poisoning is not a little thing.</p>
<p>When my girls were young teens and now with my son who is, I always make sure that a chaperone will be present at all times. I see no reason to change that policy.</p>
<p>Yes, and Richmond’s first words were something close to “My life is over. Nobody will want me now” which probably refers to the fact he won’t get recruited by a college football team.</p>
<p>From what I have read and from watching that same video, it appears to me the boys did not comprehend that their actions constituted rape. I am NOT saying this to excuse their actions, I am coming back again to the need for better education at school and at home. I think teens need to be educated that sexual acts besides intercourse can still be considered rape. They need to be educated about consent and alcohol. I’m speaking about all teens, male and female.</p>
<p>No surprise. It’s because we teach boys that “no means no” not “no yes still means no”. We teach that the default is consent. We teach that women are sexually ready and willing for any man until she says otherwise.</p>
<p>I agree. Education is absolutely key. So is a cultural shift. This case proves that we’re nowhere near getting to that shift though.</p>
<p>I hope that all parents feel the duty to teach both their daughters and their sons right from wrong. I don’t think that parents have the duty to teach their children what constitutes a specific crime in the jurisdiction in which they reside–especially in light of the fact that laws change.</p>
<p>Whether or not the boys knew that inserting their fingers inside an intoxicated young woman’s vagina, removing her clothing, and ejaculating on her naked body constitutes rape in the state of Ohio, they ought to have known it was wrong.</p>