<p>I agree - that is a great distinction. The absence of “no” does not mean consent, particularly when alcohol is involved.</p>
<p>I can’t find the quote now, but there was an interview with 20/20 where one of the boys was adamant that he did not rape anyone and said that if he had witnessed a rape he would have tried to stop it. I genuinely believe they did not understand they commited rape. But yes, they should have known it was wrong. Absolutely.</p>
<p>I genuinely believe that if they genuinely believed that was not rape, they need to go spend a little bit of time in Juvie.</p>
<p>Do you think if someone had ejaculated onto their naked body they would have considered that to be okay? People know right from wrong.</p>
<p>That’s one of the things I would like to understand. Did they really believe they had done nothing wrong? Did they think she was a willing participant? I know what we think, I would like to see a longer interview with the boys and hear their thought process.</p>
<p>The golden rule is something that could have help guide their behavior–would I want to be treated as this woman was treated. If they can’t imagine themselves as female, would I want my mom, sister, GF or D treated as we treated this woman?</p>
<p>Scary that there is such a gap in empathy and conscience that enabled this to happen. Sad that the friends of the woman weren’t able to persuade her to stay with them.</p>
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<p>Bravo, Jonri! Absolutely. It shouldn’t matter one whit whether or not those boys knew that their heinous acts constituted rape. It baffles me that anyone would believe that this was a detail worth consideration in this awful story.</p>
<p>rockvillemom, given that there are all the texts going around about “Tell them she was just there,” etc… trying to cover their tracks? they knew what they did was wrong.</p>
<p>Why else lie to the police?</p>
<p>Look, the “problem” with this type of thinking is that it says, “All young men are animals and must be told explicitly not to ejaculate onto the naked body of a passed out woman.”</p>
<p>No. People know right from wrong. Young men are not animals. They are people. People who treat others this way belong in prison. I wish every single school in the country would hold an assembly and show this trial to the 7th-12th graders.</p>
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<p>Even though I grew up in a city where I had to pick up “street smarts” pretty early in life back when NYC was still in its crime-ridden stage as a middle-schooler, I still have to say what you described above should be shuffled under “stuff happens”. </p>
<p>No amount of safeguards one takes short of hermetically sealing themselves permanently in an inaccessible windowless underground chamber will prevent bad things from happening to us. While we can take measures to reduce the probability…it will never reach 100%…and you’re fooling yourself if you believe that. It also places too much of the responsibility/wrong type of focus on the victim. </p>
<p>Thus, the better policy is to focus the responsibility on those who do take advantage of others to commit harm…especially of the heinous kind like rape in this case. Unfortunately, sending them to juvie is IMO…a slap on the wrist…especially given the lack of genuine contrition of the convicts and their family/sympathizers is unlikely to show we as a society are serious about focusing that responsibility on where it truly belongs…on the ones committing the crimes.</p>
<p>Would have been nice to hear the apologies (adequate or inadequate as they may be) earlier, not just after being convicted. </p>
<p>The whole thing sickens me. </p>
<p>And even IF the boys were drunk, drunkenness does not excuse criminal behavior.</p>
<p>If peer pressure trumps parental influence in terms of big moral issues such as this, that’s a major problem in itself!</p>
<p>Would be good if each family had to pay a few thousand toward the victim’s counseling bill as well.</p>
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<p>I’m actually not a fan of punishing the family for the crimes of the offspring. At that age, they made their own decision.</p>
<p>That may yet happen. The girl’s family and attorney are still deciding on civil suits.</p>
<p>Do you think the boys knew what they were doing was wrong as they were doing it that evening? Or was it not until the following morning that they realized what they had done and started trying to cover it up, delete photos, etc. I’m still wondering about intent, whether they knew it was wrong, disgusting, immoral, etc. and did it anyway or whether things just got carried away and they didn’t realize how bad it was until the following day.</p>
<p>It is possible that these boys will experience what they did to this girl while they are incarcerated. Karma is a *****.</p>
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<p>If it’s the former, they are disgusting and belong in jail. If it’s the latter, if they are the sort who don’t have the common sense to know that stripping a girl naked, violating her with their fingers, ejaculating on her, taking pictures, filming her and distributing it to their friends is wrong and they are the sort to mindlessly “just get carried away,” then they also belong in jail, because quite frankly, they are a menace to society.</p>
<p>I think it’s tremendously naive to believe that there is any way that they didn’t know that their actions were wrong, or at minimum, that society and the law would consider their actions to be wrong.</p>
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<p>The scariest piece of this is that they didn’t seem to recognize the inhumanity of it. Afterwards, they continue to hear from peers, parents, supposed mentors that the girl deserved it and that they were only doing what any red-blooded boy would do. The bar is really not that high - don’t take advantage of a person in an incapacitated state. The bar should really be higher - provide assistance to an incapacitated person.</p>
<p>I’m trying to have a thoughtful coversation about why this happened and what can be done to prevent it in the future. Alcohol-fueled rape is not an uncommon event. Date rape is not an uncommon event. I am looking for a better understanding of what leads to it and how it can be prevented. I know many teenaged boys, and while I have never known anyone involved in a situation like this, I have seen poor decision making involving alcohol, drugs, cheating, fights, etc. And I would consider the boys I am thinking of to be basically good kids from good families. I am interested in why teens make these bad decisions and how we as a society work to address this issue. I guess this is not the forum for such a discussion.</p>
<p>I hope that there are civil suits against these males and that the victim can get the counseling she will need. Between whether the victim pays or offenders or their parents, I’d opt for the victim not to have to pay. How family and sons divvy up is up to them but that woman will need counseling for PTSD and perhaps alcohol rehab.</p>
<p>I haven’t watched CNN’s coverage of this event, but apparently some are taking issue with its coverage.</p>
<p>[Kia</a> Makarechi: CNN’s Steubenville Coverage Focuses On Effect Rape Trial Will Have On Rapists, Not Victim](<a href=“CNN's Steubenville Coverage Focuses On Effect Rape Trial Will Have On Rapists, Not Victim | HuffPost Latest News”>CNN's Steubenville Coverage Focuses On Effect Rape Trial Will Have On Rapists, Not Victim | HuffPost Latest News)</p>
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<p>What was? </p>
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<p>Because we teach women how not to get raped rather than teaching boys how not to rape. That is seriously the underlying problem. As a society, we teach boys that women are available to them always (see advertisements, games, music videos, etc) and only if she says no are you supposed to back off. Even then, they are culturally excused if she’s wearing clothing or is promiscuous because obviously her no really means yes.</p>
<p>@HIMom: Not only that, but you can bet there is a contingent that is blaming her for destroying the football-based social fabric of the community. Can you imagine ever going back to that school, or feeling safe in your home, when people know who you are? Can you imagine what this is like for her parents, and whatever friends she still has supporting her?</p>
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<p>I know that it’s very common to suggest that people who commit violent crimes and are then raped in prison are effectively getting what they deserve, but I’ve always been very uncomfortable with the idea that anyone “deserves” rape or any other kind of sexual assault, and with being anything less than consistent in condemning them. Rape is a terrible thing, period.</p>