<p>The result of the decision by the Emergency Manager will have consequences for other communities all over the U.S., whichever option is taken.</p>
<p>I am not optimistic. I’ve never been to Detroit but I think the problems there may just be insurmountable, and no one wants to be the first to say “I’ll do my part” and share in the fiscal pain. Maybe allowing the city to shrink or break itself up into more manageable entities is a viable option.</p>
<p>At this point, I don’t think it’ll make a lick of difference whichever way they go.</p>
<p>I worked right in Detroit until recently, and I am sad to see the mess the city is in. My mother went to nurse’s training in Detroit, and she showed me pictures - it was once a beautiful city. I lived a mile outside the city limits through junior high, and I was quite near the riots in '67. The city had been experiencing issues around that time, and things just got worse & worse. People have fled the city for many years … we moved to the northern suburbs in '75 due to the possibility of forced bussing for integration (I went to an integrated school - my parents didn’t have a problem with integration - they had a problem with Detroit schools, which weren’t all that great even way back then). People of all colors have fled Detroit since the 70’s. Many of those who were left behind would like to flee. Somehow, the citizens have allowed decades of political graft at all levels, and the city has been robbed blind.</p>
<p>That said, there are many wonderful things about the city and its people. Letting it crumble is not an option … the PEOPLE who live in Detroit deserve better. Many young people are moving to the D to try to be a part of its future - I work at an art school, and the students love Detroit’s art scene, inexpensive studio space, and overall vibe. Dan Gilbert and other employers are working to make a change. </p>
<p>It will take a lot of work to get things on track. Unfortunately, there will be sacrifices required from many … for example, retirees are likely to have pensions cut due to the mess their leaders made. I have met Orr, and he seems very capable. I hope he is able to lead a successful turnaround effort.</p>
<p>Given that Ford, GM, and Chrysler at back in business and going strong, I fail to see why Detroit remains in trouble. Are the people running Detroit really that incompetent?</p>
<p>I think some accomplish what they intend.
[Ex-Detroit</a> mayor convicted of widespread corruption | Reuters](<a href=“http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/11/us-usa-crime-kilpatrick-idUSBRE92A0HV20130311]Ex-Detroit”>http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/11/us-usa-crime-kilpatrick-idUSBRE92A0HV20130311)</p>
<p>50 years ago, people from my region flocked to Detriot for jobs in the car plants and other industries to escape the poverty at home. Now Detroit is in even worse economic shape than we are, and that’s saying something. Maybe the burgeoning art scene will be what the Motown sound was to Detriot in the 50s and 60s.</p>
<p>I think the level of auto employment in Michigan and Detroit is far below what it was in the 50s and 60s. Add to that the south and westward migration of the population in general. Throw in the rise in competiveness of foreign auto manufacturers, and the fact that Michigan wasn’t interested in having foreign plants. Mix in crime, drugs, and some racial strife. </p>
<p>Not a good formula. Its especially true if you are not as disciplined as needed on things like pensions.</p>
<p>Detroit has had its problems since the late 1960s. Todays issues are the financial culmination of all that has gone on, and it won’t rectify itself easily. Pittsburgh had some of the problems of Detroit (although not all of them) and has recovered decently, but at much lower levels of empolyment and economic activity.</p>
<p>The problems started well before the late 1960s.</p>
<p>I grew up in Detroit, and we lived well inside the city limits during the 1967 riots. They started on a Sunday afternoon, and I was working at a department store from 12 to 6. In the middle of my shift, I looked up and saw my parents. They told me to come with them, and they took me home. By 6:00 people were shooting from the roof of that building. For the rest of the summer, there were National Guard soldiers on duty around the city. </p>
<p>Detroit was a wonderful, vibrant city when I was growing up. There was (and is) very good housing stock, mostly solid brick houses, and there were huge trees lining most of the residential streets. Unfortunately, there had been an outbreak of Dutch elm disease, and most of these trees were killed. The problems started in the 50’s and they were due to bigotry. I remember when the first black children started attending my elementary school, and over a few years the neighborhood changed from all white to mostly black. When a black family moved into a neighborhood, many of the white people immediately sold their houses and moved. So almost overnight, neighborhoods changed. Housing values plummeted, some houses were abandoned, crime rates skyrocketed. We were almost the last white family to leave the neighborhood. My parents were not racists and they refused to leave. But then my brothers started being accosted on the street, and one of their friends was shot to death in the neighborhood drugstore. We moved a couple of miles farther out, but still well within the city limits. After several years the same thing happened.</p>
<p>So the problems started because of white racism. Stable, solid neighborhoods changed almost overnight to crime-ridden dangerous places.</p>
<p>Even in the late 60’s, there were beautiful mansions near the center city that were abandoned, boarded up, occupied by drug dealers:</p>
<p>[Circa</a> 2002 - Decaying Inner City Estate, Detroit, Michigan Stock Photo 106930487 : Shutterstock](<a href=“Circa 2002 Decaying Inner City Estate Stock Photo 106930487 | Shutterstock”>Circa 2002 Decaying Inner City Estate Stock Photo 106930487 | Shutterstock)</p>
<p>This area is coming back now, but the housing values are incredibly low:</p>
<p>[Historic</a> Homes for Sale: Boston Edison Neighborhood](<a href=“http://www.historicbostonedison.org/forsale/forsale.shtml]Historic”>http://www.historicbostonedison.org/forsale/forsale.shtml)</p>
<p>These houses are within a mile or two of downtown.</p>
<p>NYmom, I disagree with many of your opinions about cause. </p>
<p>I’m somewhat younger - was 10 in 1967 (Bobbie’s age on Mad Men!). My dad insisted we go into the city toward the end of the riots. He’d spent the first 2 days working at the hospitals (Receiving and Memorial) - where there was blood everywhere - and once was followed by an actual tank. We saw Gran Prix at the Summit Theatre on Lafayette. We were the only people in the vast place. Then we had Chinese food and drove around so he could show us the city was not burned to ground or anything like that. </p>
<p>Detroit’s problems are far more complex than the block-busting story of lending, though that directly affected my family - living off Outer Drive near Seven Mile, right in the corridor where white flight was extreme. My other grandmother lived on Mark Twain and was the last white person in her neighborhood for many years - until she collapsed at the bus stop (where she was helped by a group of black strangers) and we could convince her to move. </p>
<p>First, Detroit is enormous. You can fit all of Boston, San Francisco and Manhattan inside it and still have room. Second, it is not dense. Detroit was the least dense at peak population of the major cities. It had the highest rate of home ownership, but few large apartment buildings - just those 2 and 4 flat buildings - up to 8 flat - you find rotting on streets today. The size and lack of density made it less resilient.</p>
<p>Next, Detroit had the top 2 and 3 of the top 10 industrial corporations in the world but not one was located downtown - GM in New Center, Ford in Dearborn, Chrysler in Highland Park. The vast supplier network similarly spread all over the area, rather than locate downtown. There was no density of jobs in the downtown core, which was mostly shopping and services. </p>
<p>Next, though Detroit had vast corporations not one located its finance operations there. Ford came closest but GM and Chrysler specifically located in NYC. This meant that despite having huge companies Detroit never developed as a robust financial center. That had huge repercussions because the lack of density went with a lack of interest in the city and a lack of money for investment.</p>
<p>Detroit is so large we take for granted the size of the nice neighborhoods like Palmer Park and Palmer Woods. Or the older Indian Village. We’re talking street after street of huge houses - some with 25 or 40 rooms. The city had many other nice neighborhoods. </p>
<p>But it isn’t what happens to you, it’s what happens after. NYC has had hard times. Chicago has - and parts are having them again. Detroit lacked density, measured in a bunch of ways, so when the fabric tore it left holes. Without the employment base, without the wealth attractors of corporate HQ’s, banking, etc., there is no value in filling those holes. </p>
<p>As for racism, I have mixed feelings about the role it played. My feelings are influenced by a few factors. First, I know the Detroit area has generated one of the largest concentrations of upper middle class black people, that unlike many cities it’s at least reasonably normal for blacks and whites to mix in restaurants and stores in suburbs, and that many suburbs have significant black populations. Second, I’ve noted some personal history but there is more. Third, I think racism is easy to blame. I know Coleman Young used it - a lot - and I sympathize to an extent: the urge to tear down is powerful. </p>
<p>But overall, I’ve long realized, living in Boston, that Detroit’s form of racism is not particularly virulent. I don’t know about the areas - like on the west side - which had large concentrations of southern whites but I’d describe racism in Detroit as essentially impersonal. It was always “the blacks” or “the whites” and that wouldn’t refer to this particular black or white person you’d know and like. In Boston, racism is far more individual, as in “you’re a member of that group so …” There is a reason we refer to tribalism here because we tend to identify individuals by their tribes. </p>
<p>As for bankruptcy, I think it’s inevitable. I have spent very little time in the city but last time I was there my wife and I - she also grew up there - spent a day visiting old family sites and driving through neighborhoods all over. Chunks of the city are gone. As in not existing. Much of the rest is beyond repair, as in nearly gone. Commercial streets are lined with vacant lots where buildings used to be. Side streets may have wrecks of houses. Now the shots you see on TV tend to be of the worst areas - parts of downriver, the east side - but that’s to be expected. </p>
<p>The problem again is size. Go from Slow’s BBQ to downtown - the distance is greater than crossing all of Boston’s office core. There are bits and pieces of life but they’re scattered across large areas. The New Center is 3 miles from downtown. Imagine if they’d built the fantastic museum - and library - downtown instead of out there. With this kind of size, it’s hard to build enough mass to generate something big.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So the problems started because of white racism.
[quote]
</p>
<p>I stunning conclusion, I would say, based on your description of your time in Detroit. </p>
<p>BLS statistics show about 300,000 national employment in auto manufacturing in the early 1990s, and now just over 150,000 after some recent recovery. But that’s a national stat. I can guarantee you that the Michigan share of that 50% reduced total is greatly diminished from 1990. There are now plants all over the south in Alabama, South Carolina, West Virginia, Texas, and Indiana too, that weren’t in existence in 1990.</p>
<p>With no tax revenue coming in, its tough to pay your bills</p>
<p>Regardless of how it got to this point, Detroit is a mess. The land mass IS a problem, and urban architects like the idea of concentrating the people in one area & making the rest green spaces. All I can think of is how much illegal activity will go on in those green spaces … as well as how many homeless will set up there. </p>
<p>The bankruptcy is real, it is here now. I hope that the folks who are good at turning things around can turn Detroit around.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>White racism? A white family sells to a black family. More white families sell to black families. Why are whites to blame here? If the neighborhood self-destructs because black families are now living there instead of white families, then maybe the character of the black families had something to do with that? Culture shift? I don’t know. But why – necessarily and seemingly historically – has a shift from white families to black families in a neighborhood destroyed the neighborhood? Why does/did that happen? Presumably if the black families that replaced the white families were identical in terms of income and culture, etc., there really should have been no change. But change happened, so what what the difference in the black families that replaced the white families?</p>
<p>The economic base is bad. But the real problem lies in city pensions and health insurance and other retirement benefits. These seniors have probably long fled the city but are still collecting on benefits. They could be the big losers in a BK.</p>
<p>I’m so sad to hear of this. My mom was born and raised in Detroit, my uncles were cops down there, and I work at Eastern Market once a week. I was just there on Tuesday, and from that trip, all I can say is that our city needs help. </p>
<p>There’s graffiti all over buildings, and there are abandoned houses left and right; there are long-neglected potholes in the streets, and there are tons of people just roaming around looking shady, even if they aren’t. I unconsciously think about locking the doors when I drive through some of the bad parts, and that hurts because I feel like I’m falling into the stereotype of a white girl afraid to drive around black people. </p>
<p>If declaring bankruptcy will help the city, then good. A lot of things went into it, (like everyone leaving, the development of the suburbs, a corrupt government) but what should be the main focus now is how to fix it. </p>
<p>Lord knows how Detroit can be saved, but I pray that there’s a way.</p>
<p>The first thing the bankruptcy court should do is throw out existing management.</p>
<p>Existing management is that imposed by the state under an “emergency manager” law. The state runs Detroit. </p>
<p>As to solutions, my proposal - which I made in writing to some people in the city government decades ago - was to cut it up. Some cities are actually “counties” or are actually or effectively run as regional government. I think Detroit should be sectioned and the pieces run both individually and as part of a regional government. (There was no acceptance of my idea, btw, even though back then people were starting to talk about closing down areas which had essentially reverted to nature with streets running through.)</p>
<p>The problem is not so much Detroit as the structure of government of all the cities around it. Livonia, Taylor, etc. in Wayne County - with Detroit - and some of the cities like Warren in Macomb and Ferndale and Hazel Park in Oakland should be included to make it work. In other words, a genuine rethink instead of bandaids.</p>
<p>I saw bankruptcy as inevitable years ago. There just isn’t enough money in the city anymore to pay bills. People hook up illegally to get electricity just to have lights, not merely because there is so little enforcement. </p>
<p>Bankruptcy in MI could be interesting because there is an argument about whether the state’s constitution protects pension benefits. Here is the source: “Sec. 24. The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.” </p>
<p>But in terms of creditors, one thing we’re definitely seeing is the effect of credit insurance: creditors have insured the debts so they have no incentive to compromise but rather have the opposite incentive to hold on and force the worse case. That is kind of perverse.</p>
<p>I just came from Detroit, the Bon Jovi concert. It’s such a shame. My dad was the end of several generations of Detroit born and raised, leaving when his parents divorced and his mom decided to take them to the suburbs.</p>
<p>Yes, the state runs the Detroit and they have done just about zero to help anything. If anything, it’s worse.</p>
<p>[CNNMoney</a> | Business, financial and personal finance news.](<a href=“http://money.cnn.com/m/#!/2013/07/18/news/economy/detroit-bankruptcy.json?category=Latest]CNNMoney”>http://money.cnn.com/m/#!/2013/07/18/news/economy/detroit-bankruptcy.json?category=Latest) News</p>
<p>Not a question anymore… the only question is whether or not it’ll make a difference.</p>
<p>I’ve worked in Detroit for 18 of the past 24 years and I love working downtown. I feel it is a combination of racism (the fleeing to the suburbs and fear of going downtown) and corruption that has led to the downfall. I’m very sad about the bankruptcy but I hope it works somehow. I’m not confident that it will. There have been some select investors who are working very hard to make downtown an awesome place to be and there are some areas downtown that are very fun these days- great restaurants, the sports venues, etc. and the theaters. When a city loses more than 300,000 people in a short amount of time though, that leaves a lot of blight behind.</p>
<p>Then we have the corruption. The shady contracts, the corrupt leaders, etc. They have done Detroit no favors. However, that doesn’t seem to be ending. Kevyn Orr, the emergency financial manager appointed by the governor, has hired his own former law firm to handle the bankruptcy. The city has been paying this law firm $450K a month and that price is going to go up now that the bankruptcy has been filed, according to a news report I heard on the radio this morning. Can we say conflict of interest? </p>
<p>I hope the city finds a way to recover. I hope it doesn’t lose its treasures along the way. There are people trying to do good things here. BarnardGirl is doing an internship with one group that is rehabbing a neighborhood- parks, community centers, etc. Investors like Mike Illitch and Dan Gilbert have helped. Several businesses have committed to doing business out of the city (Blue Cross, CompuWare, GM). But we need more. People need to feel safe. People need basic services. Unemployment in the general area has been reduced, but for city residents, not so much. The property taxes and insurance costs make living in the city proper really out of reach for most people who are working. They choose to live further away rather than pay that much money for no services. </p>
<p>It’s sad. I hope this helps, but I’m not very confident that it will.</p>
<p>NPR reported that Detroit’s population went from 2 million to 700,000. That alone would cause financial problems in even the best run city. Although in a well run city that population loss would not happen.</p>