Stop Pretending You’re Not Rich

Forget the 1 percent for a moment. It’s the top fifth that rules.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/10/opinion/sunday/stop-pretending-youre-not-rich.html

“Coming Apart” discusses many of the same issues, but this opinion piece gets published in the NYT’s, while Dr. Murray gets beat up by the NYT’s target audience.

Maybe we need a drinking game whenever Zinhead brings up Murray.

^^Okay, I don’t remember when Zinhead has brought up Murray, but I’m all for drinking games. :smiley:

This article sounds like the usual class envy claptrap. It’s not the 1 percenter’s fault, it’s the 20 percenter’s fault. And, “At least posh people in England have the decency to feel guilty”. Ah, so if you make a livable wage, you must have the good taste to feel guilty about it?

Other class envy garbage like, “The big difference is that most of the people on the highest rung in America are in denial about their privilege. The American myth of meritocracy allows them to attribute their position to their brilliance and diligence, rather than to luck or a rigged system.”

So apparently one must attribute their fortune at being in the top 20 percent (who get the honor of paying 84 percent of the taxes) to just luck and a rigged system? Gee, it’s not like anyone can get a college degree, get a skilled job. Top 20% is about 92K, which probably doesn’t make people think they should feel guilty, especially when they are raising kids in NYC. I would imagine most people who live in my area working in skilled jobs, like my plumber, electrician, and dental hygienist are in the top 20%, that is what these fields pay. It was rigged that they got that training, not work, pure luck!

I am so sick of the class warfare garbage. People move in and out of different income categories all the time. Why anyone else’s income situation should be “the top 20 percenters fault” during the years that they are working is pure silliness. If you make more money, you are contributing to the dreaded income inequality. No fair!

Interesting article but doesn’t seem to apply in our family . . . one grandparent a truck driver and the other a coal miner.

Fine with me. He likes Martini’s and Gavi di Gavi.

https://www.ft.com/content/628d8524-690b-11e1-956a-00144feabdc0?mhq5j=e1

MURRAY!!!

Martinis and Gavi di Gavi’s (whatever that is) are far too 0.01 percenter for my blood. My grandparentets were farmers and an Amtrak ticket agent, We don’t drink the likes of that, give us a good beer or cheap glass of tasty Washington wine any day.

Hey I wonder if I should be feeling less guilty now. My older son quit his high paying job and is now unemployed. My younger son’s company is going through tough times and maybe he’ll be laid off. We had a family medical event and our salary will drop by 25%.

It must be someone who makes more than my families fault. But I guess I’m not contributing to income inequality so much, so I should be pleased.

Well, our income is being used to support D in a separate household. D is medically disabled and no idea if and when she will ever get well enough to be employable. I’ve also never claimed medical disability, though technically I’ve been repeatedly told I’d likely qualify. H worked over 45 years at his job for the pension that supports us.

None of my grandparents had much formal education at all, tho both my parents are college grads.

Regardless, HImom, if you’re in the top 20 percent, you should feel guilty. The income inequality is all your fault! :open_mouth:

I particularly enjoy restricting upward mobility by having colleges admit students based on legacy preferences. I can’t count how many people I know who got into college that way, or got their kids in that way. Because I can’t think of any.

OK, I get that just because I worked hard to get where I am that doesn’t mean there wasn’t an element of luck in the opportunities presented to me. I know there are poor people who work harder than I do, and will have to continue to work hard once DH and I retire. But really, is feeling guilty about any of that going to help anything? What I didn’t see in the article were suggestions on how to help raise up struggling families. As one of my old engineering managers used to say, when are we going to stop admiring this problem and start solving it?

Consider the source- an Englishman who doesn’t seem to live here. Too many things to disagree with to bother with here. btw- many live beneath their means and that is not pretending to not be rich, some of us are hopelessly middle class. And grew up wearing hand me downs, getting scholarships and working food service to become “rich”.

Le “sigh”

“People move in and out of different income categories all the time.”

No, they don’t.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/harder-for-americans-to-rise-from-lower-rungs.html

I know I’ve seen other articles on this subject, but this is the first to come up so I’m linking to it.

I’ll admit to some white privilege. I will also admit to paying a boatload of taxes and giving regularly to charities. I am not sure how helpful the article is.

Chris Hayes made a similar argument in his 2012 book, “Twilight of the Elites”. The thesis is that America was a meritocracy with social mobility for a period after World War II, but that class lines have since calcified which has led to a tremendous amount of anger and resentment towards all sorts of elite institutions (eg government, media, big business).

My folks attended U of MI–two of my sibs also attended that U, but none of the grandkids are in the least bit interested in being that cold. My MIL & FIL didn’t attend college, so no legacy for us to inherit. They were both blue color but all their kids became professionals, so that seems like upward mobility to me. My SIL & BIL were dentists and H was supervising engineers, though not one himself.

My dad gave a couple years of active duty military for two of school. I gave more, but got more school.

So did one of my roommates come to think of it. And so did another classmate, in whose memory there is now a separate scholarship.

Don’t say it can’t be done. One may not like the options, but that’s hardly germane.

Maybe Candide ought to be required reading.

I grew up in a housing project in the South Bronx and attended a CUNY college. The intelligence and drive I was born with enabled me to make the best of the limited opportunities available to a white, Jewish girl in the beginning days of affirmative action. I clawed my way into the 20% and I don’t feel any guilt about it.