<p>Yes, jym, I had thought of writing that on the check also. Assuming that we send a check, we will definitely be putting everything in writing. </p>
<p>H says that the atty asked him if there were any “wiggle room” on our decision, and H said no. Atty then said he would “talk to [the neighbor].” Increasingly, it sounds to me as if he and the neighbor did not clarify what expenses would be covered, or did not do sufficiently frequent billing, and so neighbor is now balking at paying him so much money. </p>
<p>That response from the attorney really doesn’t pass the smell test. You have NO obligation to pay him one red cent. And if he screwed up with his client, as you said, that’s not your problem. If I were you, I’d tell him that this offer expires in 24 hrs (that is generous.) This is wasting your time and patience, and you have a right to say you are not interested in discussing this further. It doe not matter what he “takes to” his client. You are done. You can politely tell him that.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I do think that the lawyer knows perfectly well that he hasn’t a leg to stand on in asking us to pay his legal fees, and that what is going on is that he is playing on our good nature and the “small town” situation.</p>
<p>Thats what is really creepy, Consolation. He should be apologizing and thanking you, not trying to squeeze you for more. That is simply wrong. Have you looked at your state’s bar association website to see if he’s ever had any sactions against him (sometimes those are public, sometimes private). Just curious.</p>
<p>Consolation, it’s sounding more and more like the reason your H feels obligated to pay something to the attorney is that he’s afraid if he doesn’t, the attorney will start a gossip campaign about you. Are we talking about bribery/hush money? </p>
<p>“Take the offer” to the neighbor. “Goodwill” payment. “Do what you feel you can do.” Preying on your “good nature.” I’m sorry, but everything everything about this sounds REALLY unethical to me.</p>
<p>I would consider talking this up at the local bar association–the attorney should be ashamed of trying to weasel money from you that you have NO obligation and never made ANY promise to pay. It’s so wrong of the attorney and no idea what bad things he’s saying to his “client,” your neighbor. ICK!</p>
<p>It is very nice of your husband & you to make the goodwill gesture. I’d ask for receipts of these expenses that the attorney is asking YOU to pay for BEFORE you decide you’re handing over a dime. Attorneys like this give the profession a very bad name!</p>
<p>DH returned a book to the library and they are billing him because they didn’t record the return and can’t find the book. He’s outraged. My feeling is, say what?, it’s a $25 fee to a struggling library- paying would be my good deed.</p>
<p>This case is different. I see online that not all locales require that an agreement to retain be in writing. I see both sides of the billing issue, including paying for what did benefit you- when you personally had contact with the attorney (ie, your lawyer, he did nore than you expected, to your benefit.) I see plenty of talk about “fee disputes” and laws that mandate you have a resource/board to review and/or mediate. Etc.</p>
<p>I think this lawyer’s blabbing around town would be unethical and grounds for a serious complaint. I’d make him work for the money-- meaning, explain in sufficient depth why you are liable for any of this. I wouldn’t line his pockets if I were so uncertain what my liability truly was. Call some hotline, if needed. Yes, ask the local Bar, ask for some help understanding. (It can be a question, not a complaint.) They know you are a layperson, trying to take the “right” direction. Don’t let the attorney bamboozle you without knowing your position. Good luck.</p>
<p>Before calling the Bar, it might be prudent to delicately advise the neighbors attorney that you are not interested in discussing this further, that you do not want to incur fees from your own attorney by having to get him involved in this discussion, that you are beginning to feel that his pressure for payment is harassment, and that if need be, your next call might be to the state bar to inquire further. He had better start backpedaling and apologizing.</p>
<p>Consolation, I’m curious about how your H got the idea that a “goodwill” payment had to be made. Did the attorney say something, or imply something, which made your H believe that he couldn’t simply say “No, I don’t owe this”? You mentioned your good nature. You could have all the good nature in the world, but if the electric company sent your neighbor’s bill to you, I doubt that you’d feel called upon to negotiate a settlement. There’s something different about this – what is it?</p>
<p>If the lights went out at Consolation’s home and the neighbor’s home, the electric company would repair the situation so that both homes would have electricity.</p>
<p>If there were a problem that came up with whatever the lawyer was involved with, would he represent BOTH sides? I think, “no”.</p>
<p>My jaw drops at the idea of the lawyer acting like this goodwill gesture is something his client “might” consider. You’re kidding me!!</p>
<p>younghoss - I didn’t say consolation SHOULD pay the out of pocket fees, but since she and her H had thought of doing a goodwill gesture, it seemed reasonable to pay what she referred to earlier as filing and bank fees. Specific fees like that often have no subjective element, and someone incurred the costs out of pocket. If the lawyer wants to work himself into a corner by doing work nobody will pay for, that’s definitely not consolation’s problem!</p>
<p>That would be remarkable effrontery, wouldn’t it? I asked H to clarify, and he said that the atty indicated that he was going to try to get the neighbor to pay the rest. In any case, that’s their problem. We will cover the bank and filing fees to do with our HELOCs, period, and I will feel perfectly comfortable with my conduct in the matter.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, I am driving H crazy with my attempts to tease out the nuances of his brief communications with the atty. :)</p>
<p>Consolation, you & your H are being very generous. I would make a note & let others know they should NEVER hire that person your neighbor used as his/her attorney. Sounds like a very poor example of our legal profession. I would demand/insist upon receipts for the expenses you & your thoughtful H are being nice enough to cover. You are nice folks. Would also send a xerox copy of the check & said receipts to your neighbor so this attorney doesn’t try to double charge for these amounts.</p>
<p>HImom, are you an attorney? If so, if a lawyer represents two parties where there is potential for a conflict down the road, is this ethical? If Consolation were to pay the legal fees billed, would she be this attorney’s client too?</p>
<p>To answer your question, LasMa, post 94, the neighbor’s atty is the one whose good will is being sought.
I have asked more than once why not the neighbor, but the Op has not answered, other than to say the neighbor is better off financially than the Op.
It seems to me the neighbor has run up a bill for their atty services. Since I believe the neighbor is responsible for the debt, it makes no sense to me that a good will payment would be sent to the creditor. Such a payment(if sent at all) should be sent to the guy that owes the debt.
And, to Consolation, although I spoke of writing on the check pages ago, I still am of the opinion that I would not send money to an atty that was mistakenly billing me.</p>
<p>When their atty says he will take your “offer” to the neighbor, 3 things come to mind.
He really did intend to send this bill to you; and
Therefore, he truly had reason to believe you and the neighbor were splitting this bill, but now you’re backing down; OR
He is deliberately trying to cheat you.</p>
<p>I think JYM is SO right though, that calls to the bar may become necessary, but that isn’t a good first step. Step 1 is to write that billing you was in error, you did not hire his services and did not agree to pay any part of your neighbor’s bills. Remind him you hired your own atty to represent your interests. Upon that, they might drop the matter.</p>
<p>You know, Consolation, that your neighbor may have told his atty that you were going to split the bill. It may be the atty honestly, but mistakenly, believes you two were going to split the bill.</p>
<p>And to Consolation, one other thing has hit me: Since you are so insistent on sending a goodwill payment, despite the advice here, is there more than we know? For example, during the initial discussion with the neighbor about his desire to improve his property, did the topic of-- who would pay for what-- come up? Is it possible you left the neighbor with the impression that you would help with his costs?</p>
<p>I haven’t read all the comments on this thread, but I haven’t seen any indication that anyone has made an extremely relevant point: In every state I know, it is a violation of legal ethics to bill someone for legal services without a written engagement agreement. I don’t think there’s much chance that the attorney would be disbarred in these circumstances, but he could certainly get a nice hard slap on the wrist for it, along with a record that could come into play if he has future ethical violations. He could get something more than a slap on the wrist if he has past ethical violations.</p>
<p>Anyway, I bet that if you want to effect an instant change in his attitude, asking him why this wasn’t a violation of your state’s Code of Professional Responsibility would do the trick.</p>
<p>Online today, I found not all locales require a written agreement- it varies. I believe, in some cases, a retainer/fee is sufficient- but also that there are instances where some oral agreement can hold. Thing is, if it were me, I wouldn’t trust that any web site held all the conditions that could apply. I am not a lawyer- just a google fan. It’s also possible I misinterpreted. But, I suspect the OP’s own lawyer would know exactly what standards are in that jurisdiction and in those particular circumstances. Rather than wander through this w/o understanding ramifications, it might be worthwhile to simply consult him, fee or not. </p>
<p>And, if OP calls the Bar- it could be to ask for clarification-- in a case where work was done that that I did not agree to pay for, am I liable under any particular circumstances? And, take it from there.</p>
Would also send a xerox copy of the check & said receipts to your neighbor so this attorney doesn’t try to double charge for these amounts.</p>