<p>Someone at The Bar probably will not offer any legal advice per se- just refer the OP to someone who can. And since the OP is already represented, there would not be reason to ask someone at the Bar to answer a procedural question. </p>
<p>JHS is an attorney, and his words speak volumes. Good point, JHS.</p>
<p>No attorney I know sends out bills to anyone they don’t have a legal contract with. When there is a potential conflict of interest, as there obviously is in this case. the attorneys I know also get written waivers of the conflict of interest before even attempting to represent both sides. </p>
<p>From what’s been presented here, this attorney is breaking the rules about conflict of interest in the very least if he didn’t explain to you & your H that IF he were representing you AND neighbor it posted a potential conflict of interest. It also makes no sense, since you already had your own attorney. The situation definitely sounds very suspicious and not an attorney I’d want to have any dealings with.</p>
<p>I don’t know, I kind of doubt that there’s skulduggery involved. My guess is that the attorney simply screwed up the initial estimate, and now is trying to find someone, anyone who will pay the additional costs so that he doesn’t have to eat them himself. But his error isn’t Consolation’s responsibility. Even paying the costs pertaining to her HELOC is generous. She did not engage him to do that work.</p>
<p>It’s still slimy to try to get someone who DIDN’T RETAIN YOU to try to pay your expenses or bill. The honest attorneys I know have had to eat a lot of bills & hours, not trying to get folks who have no obligation to pay them. I certainly would sympathize if the matter were presented properly and would consider IF I felt like helping but would be badly turned off by how this is proceeding.</p>
<p>HImom, thanks for answering my questions regarding conflict of interest. That was my first thought (post 7). I did not think it would be proper to represent both parties.</p>
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<p>You have a very suspicious mind. 
What on earth would be the point of my asking for advice and concealing important facts? That would make the advice worthless, for one thing. I’m not looking for validation. I’m looking for a realistic assessment of the situation and of the possibility that this atty could possibly get some kind of legal judgement against us. (And there appears to be none.)</p>
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<p>Absolutely NOT. As a matter of fact, we said specifically that we did not want to pay any fees, including appraisal and bank fees. In fact, I only agreed to proceed with the appraisal because the atty told me “it had already been paid for.”</p>
<p>It is obvious to me that a single atty cannot represent two parties in a matter of this sort. The atty may be able to make a case in his own mind that since the hours he billed us for pertain only to modifying our HELOCs, that they did not strictly speaking involve the other party at all. Be that as it may, we are not going to pay him for his hours, since we did not retain him in any way or ask him to do anything for us. If he and our neighbor failed to agree on what was being paid for, or if our neighbor is now trying to stiff him, that is his problem. Since our financial situation has improved, although we are still squeezing pennies, we are willing to do the generous, decent thing and cover his out of pocket costs. That’s it.</p>
<p>I think it quite possible that our neighbor has convinced himself that he is doing us a big favor by agreeing to giving us the chunk of land behind our house, and that he therefore has also convinced himself that we “ought” to pay some of his legal bill. See Jane Austen’s Mansfield Park for a masterful example of people convincing themselves that clearly unjust financial arrangements in their own favor are the right thing to do.</p>
<p>BTW, I have looked through the website of the Maine Bar Association, and not found anything pertaining to the ethics of billing a non-client.</p>
<p>We have had some difficulties since we live on a private road and have no organized Homeowners’ Association (several of the independent Mainers refuse to consider the idea). The details are lengthy, but out of the blue, we got a letter from our next-door neighbors’ attorney, stating (1) that our neighbors would sue the rest of us if we did X, and (2) he would be happy to set up a legal homeowners’ association if we wanted to retain his services! It left us all with our mouths hanging open.</p>
<p>When we retained another attorney about the road, he said that out of all the work he does, neighborhood conflicts are THE worst. He said it must have something to do with the idea that a man’s home is his castle. Very nice people suddenly get really ugly when it comes to land/home disputes. We have found that to be true! Consolation, I found myself thinking of all of that after reading more posts this morning. Be careful!! The “nice” neighbors might surprise you. Ours sure did!!</p>
<p>In these situations…it’s all about the money.</p>
<p>I guess my question…if this bill had been for $10,000, would you have agreed to pay it? Probably not. If no…then don’t pay a lesser amount.</p>
<p>You clearly say that you told the folks you did not expect to incur ANY expense over this but agreed to the land change. That agreement is payment enough. Without that, they would not have easy access to the land. You’ve given them enough.</p>
<p>There are circumstances when one lawyer CAN represent both parties by mutual consent (in writing, I might add). When we refinanced our house with the SAME bank, they had a lawyer who “represented” them. We agreed that one lawyer was enough…I mean really…it was the SAME mortgage, same property, just a different loan with a lower %age rate. BUT we did have to sign something saying we agreed to this.</p>
<p>The OP did not ever enter into an agreement with the lawyer who sent the bill…that being said…I can’t imagine paying anything to this lawyer.</p>
<p>The OP did not ever enter into an agreement with the lawyer who sent the bill…that being said…I can’t imagine paying anything to this lawyer.</p>
<p>I agree- everything I see indicates that unless client has been given a headsup as to what & when they will be billed for- it is improper.
This bill was a surprise- so it doesn’t seem be be proper.
if you really want to pay someone- make a donation to the local legal clinic.</p>
<p>How did you resolve your neighbor/road situation, mainelonghorn? I seem to remember that veryhappy had a similar situation not too long ago.</p>
<p>thumper, no, we would not have paid $10,000. The amount does matter. Yes, as a matter of strict legality we would be completely justified in telling both of them to shove it. But that is not what we want to do. I guess I’m just not as hard-nosed as people think I should be. If the lawyer persisted in trying to get us to pay anything more, or engaged in any kind of bluster about how we “owe” him anything, that would definitely change my attitude towards him. But so far he hasn’t, and I think it highly unlikely that he would. </p>
<p>I know some people who are constantly at war with various neighbors. I don’t want to live that way.</p>
<p>I know some people who are constantly at war with various neighbors. I don’t want to live that way.</p>
<p>Oh I agree, one reason why we have lived in the same house for 28 years is that we are used to our neighbors. 
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<p>I may have missed whether you have got together with neighbor to compare bills- what do they think about you being sent a bill?</p>
<p>It CAN be done as long as it is fully explained to the parties & they sign a conflict of interest waiver. It’s wrong to do so otherwise & can get the attorney in a lot of trouble.</p>
<p>You see, Consolatation(re: 106) It thought it very possible that in the discussion of what the neighbor wanted to do, the cost of such changes might not have come up at all. In order to persuade you, the neighbor might have described that his desired changes benefitted you both. Given that possibility, he might have merely assumed changes that benefitted you both would lead to costs shared by both. It would make sense to me that if the discussion of money did not come up during your talk with neighbor, then you might not have mentioned here that no talk of money came up. Not as deliberately concealing facts, but just because you may not have thought to mention that no talk occurred. Make sense? If no talk of money had occurred, I can understand your neighbor (wrongly) assuming you’d pay a portion.
Of course, your post 106 makes it clear the discussion did come up, and you were very specific about your position. If you said early on in this thread that you had the specific discussion as you have now described in post 106, my apologies. I didn’t remember you explaining that before.</p>
<p>What if your neighbor is trying to pass off some of the cost on you --after the fact? Maybe they know you are soooo nice that they feel you just might pony up? The lawyer agrees to take a shot at it. Lawyer bills YOU for part of his clients bill and agrees to lower clients bill by whatever you pay! I would quit trying to be so nice (you may wind up being taken for granted)</p>
<p>limabeans, there is a limit to my niceness: $538. :D</p>
<p>Consolation–that’s more generous than many of us would have been under similar circumstances. I hate feeling I’m being gamed & don’t like folks that send me a bill when I haven’t requested their services–ICK! Hope things work out OK & that you have proof of these amounts & send a copy to the neighbor so this guy doesn’t try to bill the neighbor for these SAME amounts.</p>
<p>jym, our private road is deteriorating and we haven’t saved much money to repair/repave it. A lot of small towns in Maine have refused to accept new roads over the last 20-25 years, so there will be a lot of roads in bad shape. One neighbor has offered to front us about $6000 so we’ll have enough to replace each culvert and patch the road over it. And the state just replaced warning signs at our railroad crossing, so they will be sending each of us a bill for that, I’m sure! Sometimes I think I should just start throwing dollar bills out the window for everybody to take.</p>
<p>Just a thought…if you do pay this bill, does that then make you a client and you in agreement to be the attorney’s client? Might you then expect future bills with the assumption that you have agreed to being his client by paying this fee?</p>
<p>HImom, upon reflection I would seriously consider telling them no, but unfortunately H has already told the atty we will cover the out of pocket costs, and I can’t see taking it back unless provoked in some way. H is the one who has been talking to the atty during this phase, and I only have input second hand. The neighbor is very, uh, old-fashioned, and ALWAYS asked to speak to H regarding the matter. (Stupid of him, because <em>I</em> was the one who was willing to make the deal in the first place.) I have dealt with both the surveyor and the atty directly–they don’t seem to share the neighbor’s prejudices–but at this point it does not seem like a good idea to jump in. Based on his track record, if something went wrong H would be only too happy to blame me. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Paying the out of pocket costs does not make us his client. We are not paying for ANY of his hours. Moreover, the check would be accompanied by a certified letter that clearly states that we have not retained him at any time in the past, and have no intention of retaining him now, and that the check covers out of pocket fees only and not his legal services. And that we are choosing to pay these fees as a goodwill gesture and do not in fact have any legal responsibility to do so.</p>
<p>If he tried to pursue us for legal fees after that I’m sure his reputation would be blackened significantly. I don’t think he would risk it.</p>