Struggle and Challenge Are Good: The Work of Carol Dweck

<p>In other threads, tokenadult has provided links to the work of Carol Dweck, a professor of psychology for many years at Columbia and now at Stanford. I’ve been a big fan of Dweck’s work for a number of years and would like to help spread the word on her research because it’s both fascinating and useful. Backed by years of study, she asserts that intelligence (along with most human capabilities) is not fixed, and that those who focus on growth, learning and relishing challenges end up more successful in the life than those who see talent as fixed and immutable. Because the latter tend to focus on achievements (grades, scores, job promotions, etc.) as outward manifestations of innate ability, they are often afraid to risk failure that might contradict their perception of their own talent. Motivation, resilience in the face of failure, and a commitment to continually developing one’s abilities are the outcomes of a growth mindset. Fragile self-esteem, fear of challenge, and lack of persistence are often the results of a fixed mindset. And she has the evidence to prove it. Great stuff.</p>

<p>Dweck is doing her best to get the word out about her findings and so wrote the book, “Mindset,” to popularize her research for lay readers. However, because it was written to be understood by the average fourteen-year-old, it is full of “popular” anecdotes and may give the impression that her recommendations aren’t based on the decades of careful research that they are. My favorite book of hers is “Self Theories: Their Role in Motivation, Personality and Development.” Though more scholarly than “Mindset,” it is easy enough to follow and has a greater density of interesting results per page.</p>

<p>One idea I find fascinating is the possibility that because in elementary school girls receive more “being” praise—i.e. they are smart, pretty, “good”, etc.—while boys tend to receive more “behavior” messages (often critical–i.e. sit still, pay attention, make more effort) girls are more likely to get thrown when they reach more challenging intellectual tasks in junior high or high school. They may very well have less inner resources to deal with failure and to motivate themselves to tackle what they may find “hard” (math and science?) for the very first time. It’s not that boys find the work less difficult, but rather that they are less likely to shy away from tasks at which they are not immediately successful.</p>

<p>This article, an interview from 2005, is an excellent entry point into the findings from Dweck’s research:</p>

<p>[Education</a> World ® School Issues: Wire Side Chats: How Can Teachers Develop Students’ Motivation – and Success?](<a href=“http://www.education-world.com/a_issues/chat/chat010.shtml]Education”>http://www.education-world.com/a_issues/chat/chat010.shtml)</p>

<p>In the article, she summarizes the results of some of her research with fifth graders: (Note: when she speaks of praising for effort, this includes praising a student for his/her persistence, resilience, creative strategies, willingness to struggle, etc. as well as for sheer time spent.)</p>

<pre><code> “First, when students were praised for their intelligence, they became so invested in looking smart that they became afraid of challenge. Most of them preferred a sure-fire success over a challenging opportunity to learn something important. When students were praised for their effort, 90 percent of them wanted the [subsequent] challenging learning opportunity.

“Second, when students then experienced a second, [more] difficult set of problems, those who had been praised for their intelligence now told us they felt dumb. In other words, if the success meant they were smart, the failure meant to them that they were dumb. Any self-esteem that had been promoted by the praise was very, very fragile.

“In contrast, the students who had been praised for their effort saw the setback not as a condemnation of their intellect, but as simply a signal for more effort. They realized that a harder task means harder work.

“Third, the students who were praised for their intelligence told us that they no longer enjoyed the task, and no longer wished to take problems home to practice. A feeling of failure made them turn away from a chance to practice their skills and improve. In contrast, the ones who were praised for their effort enjoyed the task just as much as before and were just as eager to take problems home to practice. In fact, some of them liked the task even better when it got hard and were more determined to master it.

“Fourth, we gave the students a third set of problems, similar to the first set (the one on which they had succeeded). How did they do on these problems? The students who were praised for their intelligence now did significantly worse than they had initially, whereas the students who were praised for their effort did significantly better than they had done before. This means that two groups of students, who had started off with similar performance, were now very far apart.

“And finally, when given a chance to write to a student in another school about the task, 40 percent of the students who received intelligence praise lied about their score. They revised it upward. Very few effort-praised students did so. This suggests that when students are praised for their intelligence, they become so over-identified with their performance, so personally humiliated by setbacks, that they can’t tell the truth even to an anonymous peer they will never meet.

“In short, intelligence praise made students feel good in the moment, but it made them afraid of challenge and unable to cope with setbacks. Effort praise seemed to give students a more hardy sense of themselves as learners, a more healthy desire for challenge, and the skills to cope effectively with setbacks.”
</code></pre>

<p>Another quote from the article that I liked:</p>

<pre><code>“What has intrigued me most in my 30 years of research is the power of motivation. Motivation is often more important than your initial ability in determining whether you succeed in the long run. In fact [as I mentioned earlier], many creative geniuses were not born that way. They were often fairly ordinary people who became extraordinarily motivated.

“By motivation, I mean not only the desire to achieve but also the love of learning, the love of challenge, and the ability to thrive on obstacles. These are the greatest gifts we can give our students.”
</code></pre>

<p>Another good overview article on her work (posted a number of times before by tokenadult!) </p>

<p>[STANFORD</a> Magazine: March/April 2007 > Features > Mind-set Research](<a href=“Page Not Found”>Page Not Found)</p>

<p>For another article on her more recent research results:</p>

<p>“New Study Yields Instructive Results On How Mindset affects Learning”</p>

<p>[New</a> study yields instructive results on how mindset affects learning](<a href=“You’ve requested a page that no longer exists | Stanford News”>You’ve requested a page that no longer exists | Stanford News)</p>

<p>About the Brainology software she is developing for middle-schoolers (she has tested out a prototype in public schools in New York City):</p>

<p>Love it! I’ll be checking out Mindset from the library (sadly, they don’t have the one you’ve linked to) - there are 9 holds on it! I had the ‘fixed intelligence’ mindset for a while, which definitely breeds a lot of doubt that you’re not ‘good enough.’ I would think that if I had to work super hard on something, then I obviously wasn’t good at it, and that since there are so many people that are good/better at that certain thing, why bother even trying? </p>

<p>It’s not easy to change mindsets, but I think I’m succeeding at least somewhat - my B in Calculus BC last semester shall not deter me from majoring in Engineering, though it did kill any ideas of majoring in Math…Hm.</p>

<p>Thanks for opening the thread and telling me about some links that are new to me.</p>

<p>I think it was last year that tokenadult posted about Dweck and her research. I was fascinated and read as much of her as I could find. It transformed my teaching in a meaningful way (I teach gifted and regular ed students).It makes so much sense. My only regret is that I read about her theories too late to implement them in raising my two children. I inadvertently/accidentally relied a little too much on the fixed mindset with S, and I think he suffered a bit for it and has had a harder road as a young adult. Now I am careful to praise him for effort and persistence rather than accomplishments. I will do better with the grandkids someday. I wish all parents would read her work. (I’m also easier on myself these days. :slight_smile: )</p>

<p>Although I agree with the conclusions of Dweck’s work, I have serious qualms about the research itself, as it is summarized in the links. </p>

<p>Parents, grandparents, teachers, other students, other students’ parents, the books children read, TV shows, videos, films, newspapers, and magazines should all be influencing students’ perceptions of the significance of effort vs. (or complementary to) pre-developed abilities. Yet, in the studies by Carol Dweck and Claudia Mueller (as summarized in the article in Education World), the long-term efforts by people who are truly committed to the welfare of each individual child seem to have been almost completely over-ridden by a small number of comments made by the visiting psychologists. </p>

<p>Please look again at the striking findings that Dweck and Mueller reported, as listed by taomom (particularly the third, fourth, and fifth items). Hadn’t some of the students in the group that Dweck and Mueller praised for their intelligence been encouraged by their parents, earlier on, to adopt a “growth” mindset? What happened to them?</p>

<p>Would you have permitted your child to participate in this research, if you knew in advance that he/she would be assigned to the group being praised for intelligence, after the initial test? I would not have done so. Neither would my spouse.</p>

<p>Were the effects that Dweck and Mueller reported confined to their study? If so, perhaps Dweck and Mueller were really observing the impact of their interactions with the students, and not the impact of a belief structure. Also, how sincere do you think that Dweck and Mueller sounded while praising the students for their intelligence, since it was clearly a set-up? (At least they believe in the power of effort.) I’ve met a few upper elementary students who are quite perceptive, and I think that they would have both detected and resented the misrepresentation, and that would have affected their interactions with the researchers.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if the effects on the students seemed to extend beyond the study, what debriefing exercises did Dweck and Mueller hold with the students? Debriefing seems essential on ethical grounds, since the students who were praised for intelligence actually wound up performing worse on later tests than they did at the outset of the study—so they have been harmed. Moreover, in my view, the 40% who lied about their scores in letters to other students were harmed further by the experiment. Yet, to conduct the debriefing, Dweck and Mueller would have had to tell the students that they had given information to the students that had no actual basis in fact. A few upper-elementary students would have developed the sophistication to deal with this–and one could actually argue that it’s a useful educational outcome to learn that “Adults sometimes lie.” But I think the debriefing would be very tricky.</p>

<p>Also, I find it troubling that (at my university, at least), research in education does not have to pass the same human-subjects review that all other research involving human subjects must pass, even if it simply involves survey research. Once Dweck and Mueller had their initial findings (from the first group of children), there would be an even more difficult ethical dilemma in attempting to replicate the work.</p>

<p>I’m reminded of the famous discrimination exercise, treating blue-eyed and brown-eyed children differently. On the one hand, it does give a powerful understanding of the effects of discrimination. On the other hand, participants in the original experiment (in Iowa, I think?) describe still feeling scarred by it, even after debriefing, years later. </p>

<p>A somewhat more benign version of that experiment was run in my daughter’s elementary school, in which a group of about five students in an upper-elementary class received extra privileges for a few days (such as extra time at recess, gum, and other small items). My daughter, who had already been sensitized to discriminatory practice, came home and announced that if she had been in the favored group, she would have declined the extra privileges. While her noble intentions were not put to the hard test of reality, since she wasn’t in the “privileged” group, it was one of the times that I have been exceedingly proud of her. But her plan would have been a bit disruptive for the experiment!</p>

<p>The above having been said, I do acknowledge that it’s unfair to criticize a precis of someone’s research (and a popular precis, at that). So I am planning to read Dweck’s book and publications, before drawing a definite conclusion.</p>

<p>I do agree that intelligence is malleable. I’ve seen the effects of really good college-level math classes on my own! Also, the New York Times Science section this Tuesday carried a report on the phenomenon, although in my opinion it just scratched the surface, in terms of the effects on intelligence derivable from of challenge-based stretches. (It was mainly devoted to fluid intelligence and memory.)</p>

<p>There is an interesting poem that I have seen attributed to Neils Bohr. [I’m quoting it from memory, about 16 years after seeing it, and my German’s gone rusty–so I’d appreciate help in correcting genders, etc. Also, I can’t do umlauts.] But here goes:</p>

<p>Gaebe? Wer hat keine?
Talente? Spielzeug fuer Kinder.
Erst der Ernst macht den Mensch,
Erst die Fleissigkeit den Genie.</p>

<p>Roughly speaking (and with a little gender-neutrality thrown in):</p>

<p>“Gifts? Who has none?
Talent? A plaything for children.
Only earnestness makes the genuine person,
Only diligence makes genius.”</p>

<p>Obviously, Bohr operated in a quite rarefied world of intellect–in Copenhagen, he probably didn’t run into any physicists lacking in gifts. But I subscribe to his view, based on my own experience.</p>

<p>I heard Carol Dweck speak a couple of nights ago at Stanford. If you ever have a chance to hear her, do go. She is a clear, engaging speaker (with a wonderful voice btw) and explains her research quite well. I do think that the focus on “fixed mindset” versus “growth mindset” makes a lot of sense, although I am also not sure that her emphasis on the role of environment in the creation of that mindset is backed by a lot of research. It seems to me that many factors, including temperament and circumstances must play a large role in the creation of a mindset. Still, I really liked her emphasis on focusing on the joy of the challenge (growth mindset). </p>

<p>One more impressive Barnard alum ;)</p>

<p>Dollyflower,
Many moons ago I got a degree in engineering, and I can assure you it was not due to mathematical brilliance on my part, but rather a lot intellectual elbow grease. The nice thing about engineering is that the math involved is very applied and practical, even when it involves calculus. (No proofs!!!) To succeed in engineering, you don’t have to be brilliant at math, you just have to get yourself competent at it. Actually it’s kind of a pleasure to see that math can be so darned useful. Engineering is a strenuous road, however, and if you didn’t actually <em>like</em> using math, then I would be concerned, because you’ll be doing a heck of a lot of it on all those problem sets. But if you enjoy the subject matter and are willing to do the work, you’ll be fine. And if you want to retake a portion of calculus in college to firm up your footing in it, that’s perfectly okay.</p>

<p>Patient,
I think we were at the same lecture! Actually, that lecture is what prompted me to make this post, because even though Dweck has been persistently trying, it seems so difficult to get the research out of academia and into mainstream thought, especially when the self-esteem movement has had a stranglehold on child development for so many decades. </p>

<p>Dweck’s research is extensive. On her web page you can see a list of her publications.</p>

<p>[Carol</a> S Dweck](<a href=“http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~dweck/publications.html]Carol”>http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~dweck/publications.html)</p>

<p>Her “Self-theories” book I referenced earlier is a great compilation of her research up until the year 2000. Much of her work studies the effect of a growth versus fixed mindset, but she also has numerous studies on how the mindsets are created, nature vs. nurture, etc. </p>

<p>I think one of the points she was making the other night was how parental values affect children’s mindsets enormously, and that these values are communicated to children constantly through informal conversations and through the examples we set for our kids in how we approach/seek challenge and growth in our own lives. I think one of the most exciting aspects of her work is that whatever one’s temperament, and however one got the mindset one has, her studies show that people are capable of change, and a fixed mindset can be changed to a growth one.</p>

<p>QuantumMech,</p>

<p>Thanks for your interest and your thoughtful concerns. I’m sure you will really enjoy her “Self Theories” book. I have to go out and interact with my real life right now, but I’ll briefly say now that Dweck does “debrief” the children she works with and always makes sure that they all get the same info on growth mindsets before they leave. I would expect both Columbia and Stanford to have very stringent ethical standards on psychological research with children, but you could email Dweck directly about your concerns. (You can find her email at the website I referred to in my answer to patient.)</p>

<p>Just reserved Mindset from the Library (first in line :slight_smile: )</p>

<p>For those whose libraries don’t carry Dweck’s “Self-Theories” book (and who don’t want to spring $27 to buy their own copy) this website has a very rich summary (lots of detail on the research):</p>

<p>[General</a> Teaching Council for England | Promoting students? persistence in meeting learning challenges](<a href=“http://www.gtce.org.uk/research/romtopics/rom_teachingandlearning/persistence_oct07/study]General”>http://www.gtce.org.uk/research/romtopics/rom_teachingandlearning/persistence_oct07/study)</p>

<p>QuantumMech, </p>

<p>I think this quote from the website above will go far to allay your ethical concerns:</p>

<p>“The researchers paid particular attention to the ethical issues involved in their experiments. All the experiments were designed to leave the subjects with a positive sense that they had learned or achieved something. The experiments with young children used role-play with dolls to avoid directly criticising individuals during the course of the task and the children were offered experiences of success and praise following any experience of difficulty or challenge. Older students who were initially misled as to the purpose of the experiment were debriefed and offered a full explanation of the purpose and findings of the experiments.”</p>

<p>Thanks for the additional information and links, taomom. I have been thinking about Dweck’s experiments in an off-hand way, since tokenadult posted some related material on this forum a while ago, but hadn’t really followed up with the reading. I’ll pm you at the point when I have an informed opinion!</p>