<p>Jonri – I know that Tom Wolfe is not female, and have read several of his books, but since I had never heard of this book I took a wild guess. My bad for not being a student of literature.</p>
<p>And I know of many fundraisers - not just for lacrosse teams– that have golf outings or other activities that include alcohol – so what?</p>
<p>My point is – don’t smear all of lacrosse – if you want to say it was a UVA lacrosse problem – maybe. Just as it would be a UVA anthropology department problem and not a problem common to all anthropology students.</p>
<p>Cartera – Whether you’re a he or a she really doesn’t matter. What I do get from your post #1032 is that your knowledge of the lacrosse culture seems to be at most second hand. I surmise that you live in a hotbed, where lax is on the mind of every high school kid who has school spirit whether he or she is a player or not. Again, my point is, there is a problem when lacrosse (or any other group) is smeared just because the kid involved is a player on a team – it could have happened with a lacrosse player, a football player, a basketball player, a baseball player, an anthropology student, etc, etc, etc. Lacrosse is not the problem – as has been mentioned before Huguely’s home life, his aggressive nature, his air of entitlement, alcohol, his loss of “top gun” status, and possibly steroids (which are not even limited to college athletes – been to a gym and looked in the weight room lately?) all played a part. Lacrosse players may have many of these things in their backgrounds, but so do many, many others.</p>
<p>greenwitch - And had the cheating scandal and it’s cliquish response been in Texas, you would have been talking about football players.</p>
<p>I think I’ve made my point – I’m done here.</p>
<p>^^ I agree it could very easily be about football players. </p>
<p>BTW - Tom Wolfe has a Phd in American Studies and did extensive research that went into describing the various cultures and ways of speaking in “Charlotte Simmons”. It’s a very involving (and often hilarious) book. Pick it up, start reading, and try, just try, to put it down! Not so easy…</p>
<p>Another poster that is close to Lacrosse Ground Zero here. </p>
<p>I agree with many of the posters that lacrosse is unique. I think that I remember in Charlotte Simmons how the girls fawned over the “laxers” particularly because they combined athletic ability with a WASPy, rich boy, or at least private school, background.</p>
<p>To me, the adoration of girls to these guys is a major part of the problem. I remembered reading this article some time ago, maybe it was posted here, about sorority girls in North Carolina, and how they are so selective in who they date, that the “acceptable” guys really get an inflated view of themselves.</p>
<p>Here is an excerpt:</p>
<pre><code> "Jayne Dallas, a senior studying advertising who was seated across the table, grumbled that the population of male undergraduates was even smaller when you looked at it as a dating pool. Out of that 40 percent, there are maybe 20 percent that we would consider, and out of those 20, 10 have girlfriends, so all the girls are fighting over that other 10 percent, she said.
</code></pre>
<p>Needless to say, this puts guys in a position to play the field, and tends to mean that even the ones willing to make a commitment come with storied romantic histories. Rachel Sasser, a senior history major at the table, said that before she and her boyfriend started dating, he had hooked up with a least five of my friends in my sorority that I know of.</p>
<p>Whether you’re right or wrong, you’re fighting a losing battle here. This incident has been tied inextricably to lacrosse by every form of mass media. All of the press about the lacrosse culture, the behavior of teammates who may have witnessed H’s violent behavior while saying and doing nothing to intervene, the high rank and thus high profile of the UVA team, etc. has branded the word “lacrosse” into the public psyche when discussing this sad incident, and no amount of anguish and outrage on your part is going to undo what is already done.</p>
<p>That is where we disagree. I think, and many others think, that lacrosse is a part of the problem. I am hoping that the coaches and administrators have learned something from this. Had Duke stepped in long before - and heaven knows they had every reason to - a lot of hardship could have been avoided. Lacrosse was part of the problem there too. I believe there are certainly problems with football culture too, but I don’t they are interchangeable. </p>
<p>I said I was a “she” because Lake Washington referred to me as “she/he” so I thought I would clear that up. It was not directed at you.</p>
<p>I can’t figure out why, when she went to meet her mother after he strangled her, her mother didn’t make her go to the police. Not campus security, but the police. There would have been an order of protection issued and he would not have been allowed to email her or contact her or be in her place.</p>
<p>She should have gone to the police. I realize it might not have stopped him, sometimes it does not, but girls need to be taught that this is a crime. Even the email, “I should have killed you,” is considered to be a threat.</p>
<p>poetgrl - I think that is an example of where the culture of the sport and how close the team members were come into play. For example, one of her best friends was dating one of Huguely’s roommates. Moreover, there is a deep love of the sport of lacrosse and it goes from generation to generation. Her uncle was an All American lacrosse player at UVA. It was her dream to play there. She would not have wanted to do anything to hurt the sport or the college. She would not have wanted to be the one to complicate the playoff season. She would have felt guilty and some of the players would have blamed her. Her mother would understood this also so probably wouldn’t have pushed her to do something that she likely felt very strongly about.</p>
<p>I think it’s completely fair to say the lacrosse culture contributed to (or facilitated) this, just like the football culture contributed to the situation at penn state. When someone is murdered in the inner city, it is fair to say that culture had an impact also.</p>
<p>Apparently the “culture” of lacrosse is limited to that particular region of the country because it certainly isn’t the culture in my neck of the woods and I have one that has played lacrosse for years. In my opinion it could have been “any girl” and “any boy”…lacrosse just happened to be the catalyst that threw them together. Substitute theater, or really any EC. It’s tragic but really it’s not “about lacrosse” it’s about the two kids and the adults around those kids.</p>
<p>The fact that the victim was on prescribed ADHD meds and ,on a weekend at a college campus, happened to have alcohol in her system is hardly reason to insult her. That seems a bit crass. </p>
<h1>I’m not insulting anyone. I just stated facts. Are the facts insulting? That’s for you to decide. </h1>
<p>Yeah, you did insult her when you added not the perfect child. The meds are facts. YOU added your opinion, which was insulting. Sorry I am late to comment on this, but I find it insulting.</p>
<p>If you go back in the thread, you can read the legal discussion. Under Virginia law as it existed at that time, she was not eligible for an order of protection because they didn’t live together and he hadn’t been convicted of assaulting her. One of the few good things to come out of this mess is that a bill in her honor changed Virginia law. </p>
<p>When all this happened last spring, Dean J was on the UVa board warning the kids not to engage in this thread because the parents had the audacity to blame UVa and it could have happened anywhere. Now we have the lacrosse parents claiming lacrosse had nothing to do with it and it’s only between these two kids. </p>
<p>I think you have to be open to criticism if you want to figure out how to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.</p>
<p>I will say that Maryland and the Mid-Atlantic region is ground zero for lacrosse. My son chose not to play because of the atmosphere at his private high school. At DD’s prep school, which is in the same league as Miss Love’s high school and we drove by hers on the way to DD’s, the lacrosse kids were half a step above everybody else. Whether or not you believe it or whether it is true for your region, it is a problem around here.</p>
<p>Call me ingenuous, but in reading about this case from the last two days, I have been struck by the testimony regarding the amount of drinking done by so many of those involved. Parents/students drinking all day at golf tournaments, drinking Sunday mornings at brunch, drinking more at dinners and parties…The alchohol factor/culture is huge in this case. Back in my day there were frat parties on Fri. and Sat., many people drank, some got drunk, but that was about it. The frequency and abundance of alchohol consumption really is foreign to me. It truly is heartbreaking and disturbing to read about this case… on so many levels.</p>
<p>Well, we know it can start before high school/college; a friend of mine’s son has been playing competitive baseball for many years now. He is 14 and has played on many successful travel/club teams. She is absolutely flabbergasted at the amount of drinking that goes on among the parents on travel weekends, starting with the first games of the morning.</p>
<p>terrwt, How worrisome that must be for her. At that age, it is the (inebriated) parents that could be driving those young players to their events. I just don’t get it.</p>
<p>*<strong><em>editing earlier post (too late to make sp change) alcohol, not alchohol</em></strong></p>
<p>momofthreeboys, just the fact that you refer to lacrosse as an EC shows that you don’t have a grasp of the Mid Atlantic lacrosse culture. If you live anywhere else in the country, you wouldn’t understand it. It is not an EC, not a hobby. It is truly a way of life and can be all consuming. Babies teeth on little lacrosse sticks. The parents and kids eat and drink lacrosse. They are obsessed about it in a way that I can’t compare to anything else. I know families who were once very close who won’t speak to each other now because of lacrosse. As I have said, one of my best friends is a self described “lacrosse freak.” She has, not so laughingly, told me on more than one occasion that she needed to go to rehab for her lacrosse obsession when her daughter played. And yes, many of the parents party a lot before, during and after the kids play. They tailgate with the best of them.</p>
<p>MDMOM and Cartera are spot-on. The lacrosse culture in Baltimore, intersected with the private school culture, is not just a choice among many. It is the dominant social force in the area.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, it forms a type of “black hole” in the area. I find that it affects the perception of those involved in the many very good public schools, alternate sports (and here I mean football and baseball!), and other activities. </p>
<p>To some of us that are too close to this culture, while remaining on the outside, there is an feeling of inferiority that our children are not in the private schools and playing this sport. Not proud of it, but definitely living it.</p>