Student requesting "relationship" advice?

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<p>A similar mindset to the “looking for great income potential/earning power” agenda commonly stereotyped against women is the looking for 9+ or 10/10 thin supermodel looking “trophy” girlfriends/SOs/wives stereotyped against men. </p>

<p>Moreover, there ARE men who do look for women with great earning potential/earning power. Would YOU like to be targeted/find yourself in a relationship with a man who sought you out mostly/solely for your looks and/or your “greater earning potential/power”?</p>

<p>RoseMadder, your post is going to incite a lot of unsupportive comments, because quite frankly you have chosen to be a little too honest on a public forum. I am certain that there are many, many young women who have similar goals and thoughts. Perhaps they would not go so far as basing a college selection on that criteria, but certainly many women I have been acquainted with have placed a lot of emphasis on earning power when selecting their husbands. It is very common, and to some degree an innate survival instinct from a previous era where women were very much dependent on men. </p>

<p>But intelligent women who feel this way are usually savvy enough to keep it to themselves. Many people are just not receptive to reducing marriage to a calculating selection process based upon earning prowess, or anything else that does not involve emotional attachment or love. But the truth of the matter is that earning power, intelligence, power and family background are criteria that many, many women factor into the equation. You’re just not supposed to say so, it’s like telling a 5 year old there is no Santa.</p>

<p>If you are that set on having money, make sure that YOU set YOURSELF up to have great earning potential.</p>

<p>Additionally, I would encourage you to use your time in college to learn, to expand your mind, to broaden your experiences, etc., in order to develop your intellect* and your character *so that you are able to bring something appealing and worthwhile to a marriage. Doesn’t do you any good to surround yourself with smart, ambitious, potentially very successful young men if you don’t possess equally attractive characteristics. If they are that great, they are going to have a lot of smart, accomplished, articulate, attractive, and worthy young women competing with you for their attention.</p>

<p>She married and remarried three times, with the primary factor being that these men could provide money. </p>

<p>She was also an outcast in her community and only had a handful of friends (one of whom couldn’t even see how awful Scarlett really was).
That’s my senior paper book :D</p>

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<p>Oh come on. As if anyone is going to prefer their future spouse be poor and dumb to rich and smart. </p>

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<p>I hope this doesn’t sound too harsh, but you have to wonder if the most well-connected families don’t also want their children to match with other well connected families. Also, going to school for your MRS degree doesn’t put you in that intellectual category that other intellectuals might be searching for. I realize that you said these are your mothers ambitions, but if you are buying into them, then they become yours too. </p>

<p>RoseMadder, arent you still in high school?
I dont think its possible for you to be less " trendy" than parents 40yrs to 60yrs older than yourself, who have urban dictionary bookmarked just to translate a conversation with their kids.
;)</p>

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<p>Most intellectuals I know of, including academics in my own family tend to disdain those who focus too much or sometimes even bring up discussions related to materialistic or financial matters on a regular basis on dates or in everyday conversations. They’d rather be discussing larger ideas and concepts in their fields or what they find interesting beyond something they’d consider pedestrian at best, if not downright base. </p>

<p>As for those who from wealthy families, especially those who have been wealthy for generations, many young men/women from such families have received some advice from parents/older relatives about dealing with and avoiding potential dates who are “crass social climbers” or otherwise have ulterior financial motives. </p>

<p>And you WILL be judged harshly if your stated motive in “finding someone with great earning potential/power” is even suspected, much less revealed in the light of day at some point. </p>

<p>". . . a guy who’s innately curious, who’s widely read, who brings philosophy/debate/witty one-liners into pretty much every conversation, and who has a deep cultural grounding (arts/literature).
At the same time, I’d like to be in a place with guys who have great potential earning power."</p>

<p>I had to laugh at this because I can honestly say that this describes H very well, and exactly why I was attracted to him. Except the earning power part. (That came after I put him through med school. . .) H happens to be a Yale grad. I went to state u. ( I can still beat him at Jeopardy–probably because I know more of the pop-culture answers. . .) Be careful what you wish for, though. Someone can have a great intellect, but no common sense/practical knowledge. Just saying that can be hard to live with at times. Entertaining, but difficult. Unfortunately there is a lot more to marriage than great conversations.</p>

<p>I doubt there is any measurable difference in general intelligence of students from top colleges, so go where you want–most people don’t meet their spouses as undergrads.</p>

<p>I met my husband in grad school. My dad was the prof who got DH a research assistantship, before I had met him. We had two classes tougher and were engaged within three months. I have to say, it has been wonderful being married to another engineer. We started our own firm and run it out of our home office. I am glad I found a mate in college!</p>

<p>HarvestMoon1, I like your previous post, especially this:</p>

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DS told us that he prefers to find his mate while still a student. One reason he cited is exactly what is mentioned here: When he is “older”, his selection process may be more “calculating” and less emotional attachment and love. Whether or not he is cheating himself by believing so is another story. (That is, he may have been quite “calculating” even today!) He is concerned about whether the family backgrounds are relatively matched and whether she is intelligent enough to be a good company, even today, as a student ( albeit not as an UG one.) He has never mentioned that the “earning prowess” could be a factor to consider though.</p>

<p>When he was OP’s age, he kind of “worshiped” his high school history teacher (in his 40s) who not only teaches well but also sings and plays instrument well like a young amateur musician does. He thought at that time that if both he and his wife are teachers, they could make enough between them for a stable and satisfying life if both of them always have the young mind as that of that teacher. (Is it likely that his growing up environment is different from OP’s even though our family has never had much financial resources?)</p>

<p>So are there actual offers from schools or is this hypothetical?</p>

<p>Seems tad premature to be comparing the potential numbers of compatible husbands between two schools that are a crapshoot for admission.</p>

<p>Once you get out on your own, you may find that the kind of life partner you seek changes depending on what you know about yourself.</p>

<p>Agree with those who said that the tone of the initial post is going to invite some critical responses. First of all, you have a deferral and a likely. You don’t have an acceptance. So this is a bit premature. And also agree with the posters who point out that there are no discernible differences in the intellectual power of Penn vs Yale students, that this is your decision, not our mother’s and the likelihood of your meeting your potential spouse in college is modest. Add to that the fact that there are smart, wealthy students at other schools as well, and that the degree earned does not guarantee wealth, its all grist for the hypothetical mill. Totally agree with those who say you should pick the school that you feel is right for you, and if wealth and financial independence is important, focus on your own earning power, not that of a potential spouse (who could easily become a potential ex-spouse)… </p>

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<p>Well, that’s my S to a tee. :)</p>

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<p>And that most likely is not. He’s in journalism school. :)) </p>

<p>You have actually gotten a lot of really sound advice here and I just want to echo a few of those:</p>

<ol>
<li>Find YOUR fit for college,</li>
<li>Don’t expect to find a mate in college (grad school/law school is more common in my circles),</li>
<li>BE what you are looking for. If you want a good income plan on earning it yourself, it makes it a LOT harder to lose it if you get divorced/he leaves you AND it means you can find a guy who is otherwise a good fit,</li>
<li>Lots of women “consider” a man’s job, that is fair and a big “plus”, but no one wants to feel that that is a main attraction…just like few young women want a guy who would base marriage on a hot body…money and bodies come and go… </li>
<li>What you think you want in college, or grad school, or heck when you are 30 may be totally different than what you NEED for a life long marriage…but that sometimes takes a life time to figure out. </li>
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<p>Best.</p>

<p>The things that seem important to you now - intelligence, family wealth - will be supplanted by more important things as you get older - a good moral compass, emotionally stable. I have known some women who only dated at the tippy-top of the social order, NBA stars, world-famous musicians, or wealthy industrialists, and their lives are better only because of what they have done, not who they married. The marriages were mostly horrendous.</p>

<p>Work hard, stay healthy, and cultivate friendly relationships with the people around you, wherever that is. Then find a fireman who can do home repairs.</p>

<p>Very interesting and helpful. Thank you ALL.</p>

<p>Hypothetical? YES! </p>

<p>But I’m glad you all took me seriously anyway. </p>

<p>Although my admission is not even guaranteed to the schools in question, it’s an issue that weighed on my mind. After introspecting a bit and talking with my mom, I think my real question is a far more personal one that I may never find an answer to.</p>

<p>I was hit pretty hard by an update on a legal battle between my parents this week. I think my original post was my attempt at mitigating my anxiety over that. Chewing over these replies, I’ve come to see that, contrary to what I believed earlier, finding my own future spouse really doesn’t worry me. Maybe I’ll worry about it in grad school, but I’m sort of content to let things be. This isn’t to invalidate your responses though. They were all truly VERY useful. I think in the back of my mind I was trying to gather opinions to make sense of my parents’ relationship and why they had chosen each other… and yes, the responses were useful.</p>

<p>(Huh. I’ve done this unintentionally in creative writing but to see it manifest in a forum is just bizarre.)</p>

<p>Again, I think the advice and the stories are awesome. Additionally they were great reads. Thanks for sharing. </p>

<p>I hope that this thread might also be relevant to any curious students who see, as I do on my sidebar, "WSJ Article: College Women Should “Start Husband-Hunting”. Talk about timely.</p>

<p>@rosemadder-
Keep in mind, too, that your mom grew up in a very different society then the US, in China so much is based on rigid criteria,like where you went to school. My son is in music, and many of his colleagues in the pre college program he was in were Asian in background, either Asian American, often with immigrant parents, or immigrated here themselves with their family, and a lot of what you are seeing reflects the culture of the ‘old country’. Plus many immigrants have dreams of rising up and seeing their kids ‘make it’, generations ago this would be common among Jewish immigrants, to mention one example. The mad scramble to get into the right school (HYP, whatever) reflects the idea that those places breed wealth and success, and coming from a place where the school name often does just that, not surprised (in the music program he was in, a staggering number of the graduates each year end up at the top schools, they put a lot of the elite prep schools to shame)</p>

<p>Without demeaning either you or your mom, the problem is that the idea that HYP alone provides happiness, or that people going there are going to provide that brilliant future, is problematic. Those schools obviously attract a lot of excellent students, some from old money, some from poorer families who have done well in school and gotten good aid/scholarships, and among a pool like that, it is not surprising they succeed…but unlike your mom’s vision, going to an HYP doesn’t guarantee success or that finding someone there will guarantee you success. There are people who go to Ivies who achieve modest success, are upper middle income, do well, but aren’t rich, for every Mark Zuckerberg, there are a lot of people who do well, but aren’t rich. People who graduate from HYP’s and become academics don’t make all that much money compared to the private sector…and trying to find a mate in college, unless the kid is from old money where they don’t have to work, is going to be a problem cause you could marry the kid who gets a Harvard MBA and doesn’t do all that well, it does happen, and not all that infrequently. </p>

<p>More importantly, there is the other side to this, that greatness comes from all over. A recent success story is the Intercontinental Exchange, that is now if not the leading, one of the leading exchange in the world, the head of it took a start up that in 10 years went from nothing to buying out the New York Stock Exchange…and that guy went to a state school, majored in Engineering and partying (by his own admission), got an MBA from a cal State school…he is also an example of something else, his wife apparently is a major advisor to him, she is part of the company and they are a team, and that is not uncommon.</p>

<p>I agree with others, find the school that fits yourself, work towards your own idea of success, and I would bet somewhere along the way, you will find the husband that fits you and that will drive you forward. I am not rich by any means, I have done very well, well enough that we could focus on my son’s dreams happening, and I will tell you that as talented as I am, the skills I have, that without her I don’t think I would have been able to reach the level of success I have…and yet we didn’t go to an ivy (pretty good private college), both of us came from modest backgrounds, didn’t have a nickle between us when we left school, and simply fell for each other as friends and companions, and we have been together now over 30 years…</p>

<p>The best bet in terms of your mom is to do what many of us did with our own parents, say “of course, mom, you are right” with a big smile, and then do what you feel you need to do. To be honest, if your goal is to find a successful man and have the good life, you probably would do a lot better going to a school that fits you, work towards making it yourself, and watch what happens. Mark Zuckerberg started dating the woman that is his wife in college, before he did facebook and became rich, she became a doctor and is a successful pediatrician, and if you look at the wives of successful people out there, the clowns that run google (said with affection) and so forth, you will find that they have wives that were pretty well educated and accomplished, and that is no accident, I agree with others, many men of the caliber you are talking about want wives who are accomplished, and while the trophy wife where the wife is a knockout who seemed to be bred to be a high end wife, especially among second marriages, still exists, it is not all that common. FInd your passion, find your excellence, and I would bet doing that you will find what you are looking for. </p>

<p>“But the truth of the matter is that earning power, intelligence, power and family background are criteria that many, many women factor into the equation. You’re just not supposed to say so”</p>

<p>Agreed. Practical considerations matter in partnerships, and most people of all genders take those considerations into account, even in a “love marriage” society like ours. It’s not mutually exclusive with caring about emotional and physical connection. I wish it were socially acceptable to acknowledge that more freely. Ignoring it doesn’t make it untrue.</p>

<p>In the case of my culture and many others, it wasn’t too many generations back that marriages were always arranged and based solely on those practical concerns. It works pretty well.</p>

<p>Empirically, heterosexual women with outstanding education, intelligence, career prestige, and earning power face longer odds in the marriage market than college-educated women with more moderate achievements. I would never limit my own potential in order to avoid this problem, nor advise a younger woman to do so. But I DO think women who care about marriage and see this situation coming down the road are smart to think strategically about how to handle it. I feel free to be with a man I love who doesn’t make a lot of money, but if I wanted children, this would have been a more complicated choice.</p>

<p>By the way, roseMadder, that WSJ article is written by Susan Patton, who got herself similar publicity (good and mostly bad) a year ago when she said Princeton girls should snag a mate. She is just trying to hawk her book, due out soon. Blech. Double blech. </p>