Student requesting "relationship" advice?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>As I have posted previously, I received a likely from Penn. However, if I get accepted to Yale (deferral) my mom wants me to take it. She thinks potential spouse material is better over there because it is more likely that the man in question would “match my intellectual caliber” – a statement that I am sure will rouse much ire here.</p>

<p>I have been in a few low-key relationships. I was always unsatisfied when I felt that the other guy couldn’t really… keep up? (This wasn’t every relationship.) </p>

<p>I’m NOT talking about standard measurable intelligence. I mean intelligence as a guy who’s innately curious, who’s widely read, who brings philosophy/debate/witty one-liners into pretty much every conversation, and who has a deep cultural grounding (arts/literature). </p>

<p>At the same time, I’d like to be in a place with guys who have great potential earning power.</p>

<p>Am I completely off the mark here?</p>

<p>If you have any first-hand stories that relate to my mom’s claims above, or just advice, I would LOVE to hear it. </p>

<p>Thanks so much!</p>

<p>-RoseMadder</p>

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<p>Your goals are your own, and I don’t think there’s any issue with it, but the way you described it sounds a bit off-putting. But the only comment here I can make is that I doubt there’s any appreciable difference between UPenn and Yale in this regard. UPenn and Yale are both top schools, and likely Wharton students will have better earning potential than Yale students. </p>

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<p>Thanks a lot for commenting, Vladenschlutte. I agree with the negligible difference thing, but my mom seems convinced otherwise.</p>

<p>I would like to add that my mom came to America at 20, on a slow boat from China with $40 in her pockets. To her, having “made it” in America is for her daughter to go to HYP and marry into the wealthiest, most well-connected family she can.</p>

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<p>As a Harvard alumnus: the students at all of those schools are pretty comparable, and there is a range of abilities at each one. Maybe the Yale or Harvard students average about to be 0.0001% smarter than the average of all students at some other schools…but there are of course plenty of UPenn students who are smarter than the average Harvard student. There are tons and tons of students at all of the Ivies, Duke, Stanford, etc., and even less-well-ranked places who are smarter than I am; I just lucked out in where I was admitted.</p>

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<p>Go with the school that is the best fit for “you.” Your chances of finding happiness in a relationship is being engaged and happy in your own skin. The world is about to get a whole lot bigger and you’re going to find there are brilliant minds all over.</p>

<p>I warn you against putting too much focus on college as where you’ll find your future mate. Some people indeed find their spouse in college but many others don’t. Especially today when women are waiting longer to marry and have children. Who you are is still forming and frankly, what you think you want in a spouse at 17/18 can be quite different at 26. You may find when in a stimulating academic environment surrounded by intellectual peers and the opportunity to really pursue your passions, what you need in a spouse changes. You might not want to come home to challenge, debate and witty one-liners… you may end up wanting compassion, loyalty, silliness, good listening skills, nurture, ect. </p>

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<p>One thing to consider is that even at the most academically elite universities, you may find it difficult to find to meet someone who has both the high witty intellect and high earning potential/power packaged as you’d like. </p>

<p>Another thing to consider is that most men with great earning potential/power are clued in enough to understand many women they’re likely to encounter do have “great earning potential/power” as the main/total agenda and will plan/act accordingly. </p>

<p>I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve heard older male colleagues and acquaintances/friends in ibanking, biglaw, or other highly compensated industries feel fed up about “being treated like walking wallets”. </p>

<p>Most would do their utmost to either avoid them* or in some cases, decide to string them along for a little while for their amusement and to lash back at what they perceive as someone with ulterior motives. Incidentally, the latter has become a bit of a sport among some in the ibanking/finance, biglaw, and other highly compensated industries in two NE cities i know of. </p>

<p>Lastly, potential earning predictions aren’t always guaranteed. Knew of many engineers/CS folks who recounted spending the '70s or the early-mid '00s unemployed for long periods or doing odd jobs like driving taxis despite attending topflight engineering schools because they encountered a downturn in their respective industries. Others who started out in low-paid occupations or had serious challenges in landing their first college entry-level job for months after graduation are now doing quite well even with the recent recession. </p>

<ul>
<li>I’ve had a taste of this when not too long after graduation, I’ve had two dates who proceeded to treat the one and only dates as an effective IRS audit. While I did stay for the entire date mostly for my own amusement from doing an informal anthropological observation of this behavioral phenomenon and some latent gentlemanly conduct, I saw to it there was to be no further contact, period…much less a second date.<br></li>
</ul>

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<p>Ok well I hate to a ballon buster but the reality is people who are from “the wealthiest, most well-connected families,” typically marry other people who are wealthy and well connected. It is how they stay wealthy and well connected.</p>

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<p>Thank you for the considered responses, everyone! It really means a lot to get in an adult’s viewpoint and your posts have given me much to chew over.</p>

<p>City: So reassuring to hear.</p>

<p>turtle: That part with shining your brightest at your “best fit” is very inspiring. I also feel very humbled now (in a good way). I recognize my presumption in the list of qualities I wrote as most important… What you are saying is a lot more measured and accurate than my original thoughts at my posting time.</p>

<p>cobrat: This is both very amusing and interesting to hear. I suppose the attitude of this post really is “golddigging”, just couched in more PC terms. Thanks for reminding me of that.</p>

<p>collegeshopping: As someone who does not get out much and whose parents have never assimilated American culture, this was helpful. Thanks.</p>

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<p>Go to college to learn not to find a rich guy. Such a smart young woman as yourself should really have higher goals in life.</p>

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<p>Don’t choose a college with the idea of finding romance or marriage. ( I know, it’s your mom, not you)<br>
Dd went to Yale, and none, absolutely 0, of the people she knew at Yale found mates, or even steady girlfriends or boyfriends during her four years there. There’s too much to do; too many people to meet, too many interesting classes and activities, and not enough time to do it all. It’s a whirlwind that goes by in the blink of an eye. She made life-long friends, though.
A lot of her cohort found steady relationships in grad school. The life-style is more conducive to long-term relationships, the students are more mature, and one’s life direction is a bit more clear.<br>
I think your mom means well, but she went to college in a different time when kids were pairing up earlier.
And if she seriously thinks there’s a big disparity in intellectual chops among the top 20 or so schools, she’s mistaken.
Find your best fit and you’ll make life-long friends and with some luck, you’ll find yourself.</p>

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<p>Not to mention the fact that while attending an academically higher ranked school makes it less likely you’ll meet as many folks whose intellectual witty chops fall below your standards, it certainly doesn’t make that chance absolute 0. </p>

<p>More importantly, you may end up missing out on meeting folks whose intellectual witty chops are at/well-above your standards who may have ended up at lower-tiered colleges or opted to not attend college altogether for economic factors in their formative years or other reasons. </p>

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DS had the similar experience. Actually, at one time, he and several of his friends had a discussion about whether their campus is a good place to find a steady mate. The majority of them agree that it is not. I do not know why they think so.</p>

<p>Just a wild guess here: The class is divided into 12 residential colleges. Thus, the pool is reduced to roughly about 50 females and 50 males per residential college. If you do not have a luck with one of these 50 people, you are stuck for four years. Also, there is some sister-brother feeling among the 100 or so students. Finally, the more tippy top college you go to, the students there may be more career oriented toward highly competitive fields and therefore are less interested in spending too much of their time and energy on committed relationship.</p>

<p>Go to a tech school or a religious school if you are female and want to find a mate.</p>

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<p>I would suggest keeping this mate-finding idea of your mother’s on the down low when you get to college. Yes, there may be some couple forming but it’s rare and more likely to be from the seriously religious, which probably isn’t the rich and well-connected guy your mom is looking for. </p>

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<p>I love your definition of an intellectual soul mate, but you may find that these characteristics are not as common amongst people who attend college with the goal of entering as highly paid a field as possible. You may also find that they are not terribly common amongst the scions of established wealth. (Who mostly marry each other, as has been pointed out.)</p>

<p>Maybe someone who has decided to go to law school, since their chances of becoming a philosophy or English professor are low. Back in the day, there were zillions of them. Try hanging out at the law school. :D</p>

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<p><<<<checking calendar="">>>>
Yep, 2014.
:-/ </checking></p>

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<p>Agree that there will be no discernible difference in the intellect of the community between Penn and Yale. (Flavor of the community, yes, but not the brainpower.) I think senior year of HS is too early to be thinking about this, but I would mainly tell your mom that you are most likely to be successful in the dating market in the place where you feel most at home and you’re thriving. The happier you are, the more appealing you are as a partner.</p>

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<p>I agree with @emeraldkity4. This is 2014. Most women stopped going to college for their MRS degree back in the
1950’s…maybe the 60’s. </p>

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<p>Wow. Did you really just say that?!? I guess the apple really doesn’t fall far from the tree.</p>

<p>From the male student perspective, I would say it really does not matter if you go to Penn or Yale; the men on both campuses will see through your shallowness.</p>

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<p>RoseMadder,
I have 3 college graduates; 1 is married and the other 2 in long term serious relationships.</p>

<p>NONE of them met their significant other at their college.</p>

<p>One met the SO while in college, but at a part-time job.
The others met their SOs after graduation, not at work, but in the area where they lived due to common friends/common interests.</p>

<p>So don’t pick colleges looking for a mate; that may not happen.</p>

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<p>@1prettykitty: I apologize that my goals have offended you by their lowness. </p>

<p>@moonchild, @mcat2: Thanks so much for sharing your experience. That is enlightening to hear and ultimately, what I had hoped was true.</p>

<p>@electronblue: Thanks for the tip. I try to keep my mother’s presence on the down low in general.</p>

<p>@Consolation: Thank you for the serious response and the humorous aside on law school. </p>

<p>@Hanna: Thanks and love the way you worded that - “flavor of the community.”</p>

<p>@emeraldkity4, @MichiganGeorgia: I used to be “with it,” but it looks like the rumors are true; I am even untrendier than those who frequent ParentCafe ;)</p>

<p>@skieurope: Shallow, perhaps. Deserving of scorn, snark, outrage? You’re certainly not alone in that opinion, but I would kindly request you to keep personal insults in check on an internet forum. </p>

<p>Usually I feel that using literary examples to illustrate a real life point should be circumscribed to the SAT essay, but I’ll bring it out one more time here. Scarlett from Gone with the Wind was heavily traumatized by her experience of poverty and vowed to never experience hunger again. She married and remarried three times, with the primary factor being that these men could provide money. These actions may have been wrong yet to me, her overall life story demonstrates awesome strength of character. </p>

<p>How are you to judge how important money is to someone? </p>

<p>How are you to judge that the desire for a guy with “great potential earning power” isn’t intermingled or perhaps equivalent with the desire for a guy with the surrounding cluster of traits (gumption, guts, quick reaction time, persistence, aggressiveness)? </p>

<p>How are you to judge that marriage with the added benefit of (NOT for the sake of) money is greed and not the longing for rock solid security? </p>

<p>Can you judge something like that without knowing a person’s previous experiences?</p>

<p>Taking out one sentence to mock the original writer does not seem fair. I don’t know you; you don’t know me. Feel free to insult me all you want in private but not here - if not for my sake, then for the sake of the overall atmosphere at CC.</p>

<p>(Also, pardon for the uber long response. I’m not mad at you. I find it useful to clarify my own thoughts here.)</p>

<p>@mominva: Thank you, this is the type of response most helpful to me. I don’t know a lot of “marriage stories” or “couple meeting stories” save the ones advertised by dating sites, and somehow I’m not sure if that’s the best way to go about it.</p>

<p>[Edits because I made some wrong tags]</p>