<p>You are told that to make it life, you must go to college. You work hard to get there. You or your parents drain savings or take out huge loans to pay for it all.</p>
<p>And you end up learning … not much.</p>
<p>A study of more than 2,300 undergraduates found 45 percent of students show no significant improvement in the key measures of critical thinking, complex reasoning and writing by the end of their sophomore years.</p>
<p>Not much is asked of students, either. Half did not take a single course requiring 20 pages of writing during their prior semester, and one-third did not take a single course requiring even 40 pages of reading per week.</p>
<p>The findings are in a new book, “Academically Adrift: Limited Learning on College Campuses,” by sociologists Richard Arum of New York University and Josipa Roksa of the University of Virginia. An accompanying report argues against federal mandates holding schools accountable, a prospect long feared in American higher education.</p>
<p>My daughter would laugh at this-until she cried. I guess she is in the other half and other two thirds.</p>
<p>My second bachelor’s degree provided an immense wealth of learning and tested my critical thinking skills. And I’ve retained a good deal of the information I learned, though certainly not all. But my degree was a BSN, which is fairly (but by no means totally) practical in nature.</p>
<p>One of my son’s dual-enrollment courses had 3,000 pages of reading and 90 labs. Where are all of these schools with so little work?</p>
<p>A lot of critical thinking can be taught at the dinner table or when driving kids around when they are young. There are some magical books out there that can attract enough interest in kids so that they learn on their own.</p>
<p>Maybe it depends on what college you attend. And while some poo poo those who seek academically challenging and very selective colleges, the kind of work expected does differ from some “easier” colleges. My two kids, as well as myself, had lots and lots of reading and writing we had to do at our very selective colleges. My kids learned a great deal in college and so did I.</p>
<p>The thing I love about college is that it has enhanced their love of learning and provided them with skills that will be helpful in their careers. S had a ton of required courses – never asked him about how much reading his engineering science & math courses required, but got him a degree and a good job in his field. I think much may depend on who is measuring what–for kids who were already at the end of the spectrum in critical thinking & problem solving (like many of our NMFs), would need a more sensitive instrument to show significant improvement.</p>
<p>D views a lot of films & critiques them with her class as well as writing a significant number of papers and having experience hands-on on film sets. </p>
<p>The 1st 2 years for many kids are filled with GEs and for some, remedial work to get them ready for other coursework. I have seen significant growth in my kids & others I’ve known in college, in their self-reliance and judgment. Have not “tested” them to measure. Might not necessarily be measuring the things the kids have been learning.</p>
<p>There is a parent who has another thread in the cafe whose child attends a non-selective state university and the parent complains that while her D achieves respectable grades, that the D doesn’t open a book or study or learn anything. The school may be very easy and the expectations low (or else the D is very smart and manages with doing very little). I do think the work load differs depending on the college you attend.</p>
<p>2500 students in the sample? There were 10 times that many students at DS’s college alone. Are these authors saying this is representative of the general college population? We had one engineering major in this family (at a college with a very strong Core course requirement and lots of writing) who had more than a ton or reading and writing and lab work…and the second student was a musician who also went to a university with a very strong required core set of courses in addition to the ones requiring “lab work” and writing within his major.</p>
<p>Sorry…but 2500 students? Where were they…and what were their majors?</p>
<p>This reminds me of when our kids were in middle & high schools. We heard some parents grumble that school was too easy (their kids were taking the toughest courses & rarely opened a book but pulling top grades) while others were complaining that it was much too tough & their kids were awake all hours trying to do the work and still struggling to get good grades. The kids were in the same courses, getting the same or similar grades. Mileage varies considerably.</p>
<p>That’s true for lots of STEM majors. I wonder if/how they control for that. The study is looking at effects at the end of sophomore year, so I suppose that students may still be taking breadth requirements. Those aren’t always the ones heavy on writing.</p>
<p>I love comparing these two quotes:</p>
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<p>Measuring writing, critical thinking and complex reasoning…via a standardized test. I suppose it’s possible, but I’d want to know more about the test itself.</p>
<p>I do believe there is a HUGE range of colleges out there. Basically anyone can go to college, if you are willing to pay. </p>
<p>This does not surprise me in the least. So many majors (I hear about on CC) sounds more like vocational school (something in a past era you’d take at a community technical college). Look at gradeinflation.com-- that speaks volumes. Look at gigantic class sizes, and trend toward on-line learning while sitting in your dorm (I know for a fact, from experience, my students can not possibly learn as much if I take a lecture on line than if we have an in-class lecture and discussion). And too much emphasize placed on ‘going for the experience’ than for the primary purpose to learn something in class. </p>
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<p>Absolutely possible. Why do people assume because something is multiple choice, that it requires merely recognizing something they’ve memorized? You can actually test anything with multiple choice-- what matters is the thinking required to get the answer, not the form the answers are placed in.</p>
<p>I gave my son an assignment over the break: write an iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch App. He had no experience in doing that but finished his App this morning. Any critical thinking in that? How about an assignment to build something that flies for a given amount of time given a certain set of parts?</p>
<p>The College Board Accuplacer test has a writing evaluation component. The evaluation is automated. My guess, though, is that you could write an essay that made no sense and didn’t say anything while still doing well on the evaluation.</p>
<p>My daughter attends our state University and I would never suggest that a bright motivated student attend. My daughter is able to maintain a rather good GPA which if she desired would make her eligible for med or law schools if she did well on the appropriate exams. This school has been mentioned a great deal on CC and I feel for parents and students who are investing their money in these schools believing that they are equal to top tier schools or Ivy’s…they are in no way comparable.</p>
<p>I doubt many who send their kids to your D’s school truly believe it is equal to a top tier or Ivy though, and many who are attracted to such a school could not be admitted to elite colleges.</p>
<p>I didn’t think your D attends the state flagship, but another state U. CC has very few college forums on public universities that are not the state flagship ones.</p>
<p>As far as the investment goes…at least such a school is cheaper than the elites! :)</p>
<p>I feel like some of the blame has to be on the student. At UMass Boston, during my first semester, all intro classes, each professor challenged us. In one class we read over 1,000 dense pages on art history. 60% of the class failed the midterm, but I got 99% and learned a damn lot because I actually cared to do so. This isn’t the college’s problem. It’s the problem of the kids who did none of the reading, refused to memorize slide IDs, and had so little knowledge of the material that one mistook a Van Eyck as something by Magritte. Centuries apart, people! Nothing alike! This is what my poor professor was trying to work with. In another intro class, we wrote 40 pages, which while not an insane amount, is apparently okay according to the study referenced in the OP. Multiple people failed to complete these assignments. In another class, one in which the professor gave us study guides, practice exams, and extra credit – 50% of the class still got D or F on the midterm. This professor did everything within his power to allow us to learn the material, but apparently 50% of the class didn’t care.</p>
<p>Additionally, 2 of my professors offered me help with interesting opportunities they thought I’d do well at when the semester ended. This was because I did what I should have – my best. I know I will continue to learn a lot if I don’t change my ways, but I’m sure many won’t do so well… and it will be their fault and their fault alone.</p>
<p>M-3, isn’t your D a senior now? The level of reading/writing required may depend heavily on what her major is. My kids attend public schools and do many research papers and have heavy reading requirements so it’s certainly not indicative of a public vs. private school environment. Their research paper requirements have been very stiff and research is often limited to technical papers and other peer-reviewed articles, which are certainly not easy for undergrads in unrelated majors to comprehend and write about!</p>
<p>Agree,sk8rmom, My kids both went to or are currently at public schools in engineering and have certainly been challenged. There are bright, motivated students at any college, even at community colleges and “state” schools.</p>