Student W/ Weak Sciences Background: 3/2 LAC Engineering Program?

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

<p>I’ll be blunt and say that I am not a Science-Orientated person. Throughout my high school career I’ve had a relatively difficult time with the Sciences; I was more inclined to the Arts and Humanities. I was comfortable in English, Language, History, etc. classes. Overall, I was a typical B+ Student, however I was always struggling in school; STEM subjects never came easily to me. I could hold my own with Math (usually at a low-solid B), Biology (probably my “best” of the sciences as I mostly depended on memorization), Physics was HELL for me (I nearly failed this class), Chemistry was fairly challenging (but not as much as Physics). I wasn’t very familiar with the idea of conceptualizing “Real-World” problems in order to come to an ultimate solution, I’d much rather read, brainstorm and pin-point an answer. I realize that the former statement speaks towards what is needed to become a successful engineer, but I’m not confident that my mind works in this way. </p>

<p>I will be attending a top 25 LAC (Bates College) this fall for almost nothing out of pocket (Almost full-ride based on Need-Based Aid). Currently, I’m undecided about a potential major or career path for the future. Although, I do hold some interest within the Theater department at Bates (the Theater major encompasses a Film Concentration which I’d like to learn more about). But I can’t see myself working in the Media/Film/TV industry with the way the economy has turned its job prospects for future students. As much as I am interested in Film I can’t deny the fact that I worry about not having a steady job nor dependable income, especially if I have any amount of student loan debt after college. </p>

<p>I am interested in Engineering because of its lucrative and secure employment opportunities for graduates and doesn’t require lengthy years of schooling. I understand many would say that, that is no reason to pursue a career in Engineering. That one should find a passion and work diligently to pave a career path for themselves that relates to their “passion”. However, I’ve never been one to have a distinct “passion”. Yes, I may hold many varying interests and hobbies, but none seem to truly culminate towards a productive career for myself. And for a student who comes from a low-income family, it isn’t as if I can rely on my parents to bail me out if my “passion” turns out to be a dead end.</p>

<p>I’ve looked at other viable careers but most seem to have personal drawbacks:</p>

<p>Medicine–Too many years in college, long hours of employment, large income threatened by student loan debt, taxes, malpractice insurance, etc.</p>

<p>Law–Depressing job prospects for students who do not attend a top 14 grad school, student loan debts in grad school</p>

<p>Business–A possibility but I’ve also had a bad run-in with Economics, too.</p>

<p>Film–For reasons I stated above</p>

<p>I just wanted to know what the CC community’s opinion was on my situation. I’m at a stand-still, right now.</p>

2

<p>My advice to you, as a Dad, is to study what you are good at. Don’t say “I want to major in X, because it is a lucrative field”. </p>

<p>Even if you should happen to make it through the program, which in my opinion would be extremely doubtful—if you are struggling in STEM subjects now, how are you going to handle super advanced Calculus and Physics courses, you will likely not do well at a job in a field you have no particular talents for. Further, you would be competing with kids who DO have talent in that area.</p>

<p>I made a similar mistake in my life. I am a lawyer, and decided to concentrate on tax law because it can be a lucrative field. But I wasn’t particularly good at it. I was much better at litigation, and was commended for my talents in that area, but I outsmarted myself, and became a tax lawyer.</p>

<p>I commend you for trying to be practical----so you don’t graduate from college with no real skills, but engineering is too big a jump, in my opinion. </p>

<p>Your talents obviously lie in Liberal Arts subjects. I would rather see you become, for example, a great teacher than a lousy engineer. Money isn’t everything.</p>

<p>Yes, it is better from an economic standpoint to major in a STEM subject, but not if you have little talent in that area.</p>

<p>Your college life will be a misery if you study, for four years, subjects that you don’t even like.</p>

3

<p>Whatever you choose… Just be the best you can be at it. There is no correct answer and much of the world has changed and is continually changing. </p>

<p>Work hard, to the point of exhaustion. Do your best and whatever happens in your life you can never fault yourself for not trying your best…</p>

4

<p>I’d say you really just have to shop around a little bit until you find what interests you. Take classes or learn on your own time and try humanities, science, engineering, math/compsci, business etc. Most fulfill general requirements so you won’t waste too much time.</p>

<p>If you’re able to provide more depth about your experience with everything and why you didn’t like what you didn’t like, I could certainly give you advice that’s more helpful than some vague words you’ve probably already heard. What about math/physics/chemistry was hard for you and what makes you think you want to give it another go?</p>

5

<p>MATH
I always took the most advanced courses offered to me (Honors/AP) although I never got to take AP Calculus AB or BC in High School. I could normally sit at a Solid B the whole semester in any math class, but getting an A was always difficult. I did my homework most nights but I had a hard time sitting still for an hour of math, I’d sometimes, if not most times, lost interest. Which would most likely lead to Bs/Cs on most tests. Perhaps if I had a greater attention span for Math I might have done much better, I always found the concepts and formulas easy to understand but the idea of just sitting there day after day writing problems drove me crazy and bored at times. . . </p>

<p>PHYSICS
I took AP Physics my Junior year thinking that I’d be able to handle it given that my math skills were “above average”. I couldn’t have been farther from the truth. The first day I sat in my physics class I knew I would never comprehend much of this subject. I’d sit in class and tried my best to understand the hypothetical problems that my teacher (who happened to be very difficult to understand because she was a foreigner from Columbia with a very harsh accent) would review. Nothing made sense. I’d be thrown a bunch of formulas and be expected to know when to apply each one (but I didn’t know). The class was mostly comprised of lectures (of which I could not understand), online assignments (of which I lost sleep trying to complete), and exams (of which I utterly bombed). After a few weeks, I just gave up. </p>

<p>CHEMISTRY
I took Honors Chemistry as a sophomore and held a high B/low A majority of the semester (final exams normally brought me down to a B). But my teacher was not the best and I spent most of the time doing the “busy work” she assigned us out of the textbook (vocabulary, worksheets, flash cards). I don’t really think I ever LEARNED anything in this class.</p>

<p>BIOLOGY
I took AP Biology as a freshman and Honors Anatomy as a senior. I struggled in AP Bio but I attribute most of that to AP Bio being my first actual AP, I may have fared better had I taken that class a year or two later. Honors Anatomy was a breeze, mostly because I merely had to memorize most of what I read and observed through books and labs. I liked these classes a lot, I found them intriguing even when they gave me a hard time.</p>

6

<p>For the most part, I gather that you’re not too into math simply because it’s not your thing. I say avoid applied math and CompSci, which are outgrowths of applied logic. If you want to succeed in engineering, however, you’ll have to deal with math all the time, though not to the same extent.</p>

<p>Chemistry and Physics, you had a bad experience. Take another class with a good professor (use ratemyprofessors.com) and see what you think. You will need some calculus though.</p>

<p>It seems like the general trend is a dislike for the conceptual. Would you agree that this area is not your strong point? Also, what do you think of law, ignoring job prospects? Is your interest in the arts something you would do professionally, or is it a hobby that is more gratifying than quantitative work?</p>

7

<p>If you are interested in becoming an engineer, while doing a theater major, its gonna take an incredible amount of planning. I’m in the last year of a 3/2 program. I have to say, that every single class I took during my 3 years counted for something. Not a single class was wasted. It either counted towards my major, a liberal arts requirement, or a 3/2 requirement. Even during my 2 years the credit requirements for my major and university residency requirements work out such that I’ll be allowed to take 1 course outside of engineering, that doesn’t need to fulfill any requirements other than the residency one. </p>

<p>Also, during my 3 years, I took a lot of math, physics, and chemistry courses. In fact I took, so many physics courses, that by the time I was done fulfilling the requirements for the 3/2 program, I was so close to a physics minor that I decided to just take 2 extra classes and get a physics minor. </p>

<p>3/2 is not for the faint of heart, but if you’re committed to doing it, it will pay off.</p>

8

<p>Firstly, I think you have some misconceptions about specific fields.</p>

<p>

Yes, there are too many years in college. But the long hours of employment only apply to medical residency (which takes 3-7 years, depending on your specialty; i.e. surgery likely takes 7 years, general practice probably 3-4 years). You also are overly pessimistic about a doctor’s income. Taxes apply to everyone; and even with debt and insurance, you are making six-figures for life.</p>

<p>

The job market is bad NOW. But keep in mind that undergrad + law school takes 7 years. In 7 years, who knows where the economy will be? The economy will probably be much better by then.</p>

<p>

How so?</p>

<p>I think the standard to apply here is: if you were 50 years old, what would you regret more, going into engineering (for the money) and not having pursued theater, or going into theater (your passion) and not having pursued engineering?</p>

9

<p>I’m not a science oriented person at all either. Look up Industrial Engineering. It’s hard to really take high school math performance and judge college math performance, since the difficulty of high school math can vary a lot. You have to be okay at math for IE, maybe “good,” but you don’t have to be spectacular. I’d say the same about Computer Science. Neither of these involve any life sciences (Physics, Chemistry, Biology) but you’ll still have to take the prerequisite 1 or 2 Chem classes and 2 Physics classes. </p>

<p>I didn’t gather that you dislike math the same way that NeoDymium did, and if he’s right I wouldn’t recommend either of these fields to you. But even if he’s correct, high school math can be boring. And it’s very funneled, with the goal of getting you to calculus, which isn’t very useful for IE or CS. Again, you still need to take calculus, but you won’t necessarily use it much. If you can take a discrete math course (my school has a course simply called “Discrete Math” which has short introductions to a lot of different topics), do so, and see how you like that.</p>

10

<p>You can definitely try the first year of math and physics and see how that goes. Maybe you’ll like it more than you think.</p>

<p>I don’t think you need a “passion” for engineering, but you do need the proper skillset and a fairly high tolerance for adversity. It’s not clear to me what you mean by “read, brainstorm and pin-point an answer” but solid conceptual understanding is really the only way to get through most difficult STEM classes.</p>

<p>The difficulty of engineering curricula is often overstated. That said, there are two challenges to be aware of:</p>

<p>1) College-level math and science classes almost always have more conceptually difficult exams, more time-consuming labs, and require far more independence compared to high school. Even people who like STEM often find aspects of these courses boring or tedious. You will have teachers you dislike and courses that bore you. If your normal response to that feeling is to give up or stop trying, you will need to work very hard to discipline your efforts.</p>

<p>2) The advantage of a 3/2 program is that you will have a relatively gentle introduction to the engineering curriculum compared to students on a normal 4-year track. The disadvantage is that there will be a second major shift to overcome after your transfer the the engineering school. Look at [this</a> example](<a href=“http://engineering.wustl.edu/contentfiles/dualdegree/Dual%20Degree%20EE%20Sample%20Curriculum.pdf]this”>http://engineering.wustl.edu/contentfiles/dualdegree/Dual%20Degree%20EE%20Sample%20Curriculum.pdf) from Washington University in St. Louis, one of the institutions affiliated with Bates. The reality is that you will take more technical courses in your first year at the engineering school than you did during the entire three LAC years. The [normal</a> plan](<a href=“http://ese.wustl.edu/undergraduateprograms/Pages/bs-in-ee.aspx]normal”>http://ese.wustl.edu/undergraduateprograms/Pages/bs-in-ee.aspx) would have you taking general education courses during your last two years to complement the technical curriculum. That’s not a luxury you’ll have if you complete all the general requirements at Bates.</p>

<p>There’s some good news, too. You are not bound by your high school experiences. College is a chance to try new things and reinvent yourself. You can do this if you want it enough and keep an open mind.</p>

<p>Whatever you end up doing, I wish you good luck. Keep us updated.</p>

11

<p>You’re going to a top college – I think if you do some checking around, virtually all Bates graduates wind up getting jobs, and how many of them are engineers graduating from their 3/2 program?</p>

<p>For a random sampling of my friends, 30 years after graduation:</p>

<p>Roommates:</p>

<p>History Major – Medical Device Executive.</p>

<p>Political Economics Major – Wall Street Tycoon</p>

<p>Chemical Engineer – retired (at 39) Wall Street Tycoon</p>

<p>Psychology Major - Senior Exec - Renewable Energy Banking</p>

<p>Anthropology Major – Director, small Urban Renewal Non Profit</p>

<p>Architecture/Engineering Major – Deceased, age 50 (good reason to do what you love)</p>

<p>Friends:</p>

<p>Philosophy Major – Wall Street Tycoon, retired</p>

<p>Religion Major – Orthopedic Surgeon</p>

<p>Religion Major – Insurance Company Executive</p>

<p>Chemical Engineer – Surgeon, Professor Harvard Medical School</p>

<p>I can keep going, but you get my drift – this is not atypical for the graduates of a top liberal arts school. </p>

<p>Don’t go into engineering if you think you’ll hate it just because it provides good career prospects. If you want to become an engineer because you think you’ll like it and are willing to tough it out, that’s fine, but go into it because you’ll enjoy it. </p>

<p>As you can see from my list above, many people wind up doing things that have nothing to do with their majors down the road, anyway. You’ll also find that few Bates graduates are starving 30 years after graduation.</p>

<p>As one of the posters above mentioned, do some sampling and figure out what you like and what you’re good at.</p>

12

<p>Let me give you some insight. I think you are wise for going the STEM route due to your situation coming from a poor family and being practical in the real world. Like you, I was horrible in STEM classes in high school. I served 6 years in the military after high school instead of going to college and in that time I got to see the reality of the world and how difficult life is without money. My parents went bankrupt and saw people live in poverty…I left the military and despite being complete crap at STEM I decided to go the engineering route anyways. I am now starting my 3rd year in the fall taking Ochem, thermodynamics, differential eqns, and drilling engineering… Slowly but surely moving along. People romanticize college, but then reality quickly hits once college is over and you have to find a job. Many of my friends are actually going back to school for a second degree in engineering or health. The point is, get a degree that is useful , then you could do the things you truly love because you are financially sound.</p>