Students Taking College Football Too Far

Parent Cafe
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<p>Thanks for the update toneranger. It explains why the kids from OSU were there (others here said how wrong they were to be in the vicinity of the PSU frat) but they had attended a party there the previous evening and are members of that fraternity. So, that makes sense to me. I’m glad that the frat organization is looking into it as well as their schools. </p>

<p>Sax, I’m glad you brought up the good of the frats at PSU. My concern would be that a small group can tarnish a public image of either their university, their frat, their team, etc. which is unfair for all those who are doing more positive things. I’m sure that those who not only behaved this way but chose to put it on youtube will have some regrets. Maybe some good will come out of it and they’ll think twice about taking the high road when it comes to sportsmanship and school pride. It is disappointing that those who stood by and watched didn’t advocate for it to stop and were giving positive reinforcement instead.</p>

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<p>Hey it goes with the territory. My sons were at the UF Georgia game in Jax last weekend, world’s largest cocktail party, and all that. Bad game outcome. Son said, “Hey, I’m not going up to the landing. Someone’s gonna get killed tonight.”</p>

<p>Didn’t happen, but a lot of words were exchanged after the game. Is it pretty? No. It’s a guy thing. But smart people know when to stay out of it, and other people step in it. </p>

<p>BTW, girls don’t have anything to worry about.</p>

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<p>Sorry Soozie–what might have happened really does not carry much weight in court or with me in this case. The facts are nobody was hurt and nobody will do more than pay a small fine. That’s how the law works. If I speed I might get into an accident, but when I get stopped they charge me for what I did–not what might have happened. This was a nothing incident. I expected to see some major beatdown of a couple of kids by a mob. Not a few cans flying and a little beer bath. Tempest in a teapot.</p>

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<p>Wearing an OSU jersey on gameday in the backyard of a Penn State frat WAS taunting , in and of itself. To suggest otherwise just points out one’s ignorance of “spectator sports fans”. The OSU fans were ■■■■■■■■, I agree. I’ve done it. I escaped. So did they. Life moves on. Oh, and BTW I’ll bet a dollar to a donut the OSU fans were a little “toddied” themselves. That ain’t sober behavior. </p>

<p>Or as my Uncle Junebug used to say “You don’t feed the coondogs wearing a porkchop necklace”.</p>

<p>Edit: and cgm, before you say “but we’re not animals” I’d like to point out again it was gameday. People are painting themselves like they are playing “Picts and Indians” ;).</p>

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<p>Barrons…you misunderstood. While I pointed out that someone could get hurt, that was just an observation but not the point of the matter. An assault is an assault, whether the other party got hurt or not. I’m not into blaming the victim. The behavior by the kids at the host frat was inexcusable and the mentality behind it was disconcerting, in my opinion. Just because it may be common (according to others’ observations here) or “not that bad…have seen worse”, isn’t truly the point. It is not behavior that should be condoned in an educational setting. I gather the school and frat organization are not thinking “no big deal…it happens all the time.” In lots of settings, assaulting someone might be a legal issue. But legal issues aside, it is an educational issue when it comes to student behavior. It doesn’t have to be the worst behavior to still be something worth discussing and dealing with on a school campus. Also, the idea that wearing an OSU jersey was so stupid on the grounds of a PSU frat…these same kids belonged to that frat organization and had attended a party at the PSU frat the night before…I gather sans jerseys. Why were they welcomed the night before then? It seems to me that a fraternal organization might welcome frat brothers from other schools. In schools I have been affiliated at, good sportmanship is a big part of sports. As it should be. Maybe it’s football…I have no clue as I am not a football fan. But in my D’s sport, they mingle and befriend and cheer their competitors from rival schools in the name of good sport.</p>

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<p>ah, so “taunting” is now an excuse to throw things at people, how sweet</p>

<p>guess those PSU guys just can’t take it</p>

<p>“taunting” that is soooo funnym nice excuse</p>

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<p>Susan, I’m sure that any day of the year the OSU kids could have walked anywhere on the PSU campus and not been harrassed. Even wearing OSU jerseys. Just not gameday. </p>

<p>

And that is the point isn’t it? It’s spectator sports in general but football is certainly high up there on the list. Rude? Insensitive? Heartless? Juvenile in any other setting? Barbaric? Tribal? Us and them? Bizarre? Uh-huh. All that. Fandom is a strange place if you haven’t been there. And those OSU boys knew exactly what they were doing (and if honest, would have admitted they’d have done similar things had the situation been reversed).</p>

<p>I may have a litmus test. Have you ever screamed yourself hoarse at sporting event your kid wasn’t involved in? If not , well …</p>

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<p>

That’s a good one, Curmudgeon. </p>

<p>It’s impossible to explain the emotions that run wild in these matchups. Some people just don’t find it appealing. Someone on CC posted a link to an Onion t-shirt recently. It said “The sports team from my geographic region is SUPERIOR to the sports team from your geographic region.” I’m getting that shirt for my D. She’s an athlete, but couldn’t care less about rivalries and all the hoopala. Meanwhile, son’s wardrobe is almost entirely made up of sports apparel. </p>

<p>I like humor as part of my team spirit. Like when Notre Dame kids wear t-shirts that say Backup College when they play Boston College. Or Catholics vs. Convicts when playing Miami. (Too bad ND hasn’t been showing up to play this year. You’ll hear loud groans & shouts coming from our tv room, and no realtives are playing on the team.) But throwing full beer cans does cross the line. Those are dangerous projectiles. THere was not wit or clever comebacks exchanged. Just drunken idiots with beercans & a video camera.</p>

<p>My H had one of those idiotic sports moments back in college. He & some friends went to MSG for a Czech vs. USA exhibition ice hockey game carrying a huge Czech flag. Dumb, dumb, dumb. But I still married him.</p>

<p>At least they weren’t at OHS, where they’d likely be setting couches on fire.</p>

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<p>I like college football, especially now that my son is attending a big time school.
We’ve attended some games - and they were a blast. Cheering kids, great bands, lots of passion. Fun. My son loves it.
But we all know there’s a dark side. Drunk fans get out of hand sometimes. Chants can get vulgar. Beer and other objects start flying. The video shows that dark side. Today, PSU kids are writing editorials about how embarrassing it is for the school. Hopefully, PSU will use this incident to teach their fans how NOT to act on game day.<br>
But I don’t think we ban football - or even bash it.
Those who don’t care about sports will gripe about how football is too important on campus and takes a back seat to academics. Well, I think most kids find the right balance. And I’m impressed with the community and pride on see on the PSU campus when I visit. Alumni come back in droves - with a strong connection to their school. Or they gather with friends across the country to watch their team. It’s fun.<br>
I went to a state school in NY. Awful football team - awful basketball team. No spirit. Most kids didn’t even know the school colors. Zero school pride. That’s OK I guess, but I would have loved to have a team to root for.</p>

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<p>Curmudgeon…I certainly do understand spectator sports and the passion and verve behind them. You asked if I had screamed at a sporting event other than my own kids’ events. I’m into it but not a big screamer. My state has no National Sports Teams. However, I grew up outside of Philly and saw my share of Sixers games, Flyers games, Eagles games, and Phillies games (my dad owned season tickets to all for his business). I was at the game when the Flyers won their FIRST Stanley Cup. I missed school to go to the huge parade and event at the Army/Navy stadium. I likely screamed. I was in high school. In graduate school, I traveled overnight from Boston to be at the World Series for the Phillies game. I’m sure I was cheering at the time. On a college visit with D2, I was in Boston the night the Red Sox won the pennant and heard the noise all night long by my hotel in the thick of it and my D was in the crowds. When I was fifteen, I traveled to visit relatives in CA and went to the Rose Bowl game as my cousin was a Stanford student and they were in it. I understand what’s involved. I may not be a diehard but I get it. I have NOTHING against big sports. They’re cool. I was watching the Red Sox final game of the Series the other night in my hotel room. </p>

<p>However, I believe the behavior of that particular group of college students crossed the line. I could be a diehard PSU fan and still think that. I’m into PSU as my niece goes there. The mentality of attacking other fans with names and objects goes beyond what I find as acceptable diehard team spirit, sorry. As toneranger informs us, PSU kids are writing editorials about the embarassment for the pride in their school. They would not be writing such articles or it would not be making their papers or other internet sites had the behavior not been out of line. If this was acceptable fan behavior, it would be just another “rah rah team” moment. But it wasn’t. Had my own kid been involved, I’d be embarrassed. I might own every PSU logo item in the book (and my brother’s family has many of them), but this wasn’t a fine moment for the educational institution. I don’t think it is about PSU and just about those particular kids. I feel bad for the loyal PSU fans who may feel marred by that incident. I believe in team spirt. For the life of me, I cannot imagine my children calling fans for the other team names or assaulting them. They’d be cheering wildly, however, for their OWN team, as it should be.</p>

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<p>Hoarse, Susan. The word “hoarse”. As in

You haven’t passed the litmus test yet.</p>

<p>Boorish, immature, even assaultive? I think I’ve admitted all that and more about the PSU kids actions.

Those aren’t words of praise coming from me, Susan. I am critical of their action. But to think this is somewhat unique to this incident well…that’s nothing but naivete.</p>

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<p>I think what concerns me, and I think Soozie touched on it, is the idea of not being able to go somewhere or wear something because of who you are. No, I am not equating sports fans with civil rights, but the same argument was and is used–“if they don’t want abuse, don’t try to attend our schools. They brought it on themselves…” How many times has that been used to excuse violence?</p>

<p>When my daughter was viciously assaulted while running in a park near our house mid-day, we heard “well, she must have done something to bring it on herself.” Victims of rape are told “you asked for it–don’t dress that way.” Gays should be invisible—or expect abuse. You wore a nice chain? Your fault you were mugged.</p>

<p>The list goes on. Expect violence. Be smart. Be invisible.</p>

<p>Yes, maybe these students were looking for trouble. Does that mean they were looking for violence? If we should expect violence…is violence the expected behavior? If I wear my Mets jersey to a Philly game, would it be my fault if I were assaulted? Truly, I might expect ribbing, but I sure think a line would be crossed if violence occurred. This lay-low ethic mightily troubles me.</p>

<p>Maybe i’m just not smart enough.</p>

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<p>This situation was not about just wearing something…</p>

<ol>
<li> Combine a large group of young, drunk college students.</li>
<li> A smaller group wearing the college’s rival regalia.</li>
<li> Hostile grounds (fraternity row)</li>
</ol>

<p>…You’re asking for trouble. In no means did it warrant assaulting the guys, but put it in some context.</p>

<p>For example, if a rival gang member goes on another gang’s turf wearing the inappropriate colors, etc. Do you think that these gang members are going to be treated with respect? The world is not all peace, love and happiness.</p>

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<p>Again, we’re talking about what should be and what is.
Did I want to tell my son to hide his home jersey under his jacket while we strolled around Tampa before a big game day? No. Would it be his fault if he was assaulted? No. But come on…it is what it is. We read the situation and it was a risk we chose not to take.
Would I tell my daughter that it’s risky to go to a man’s apartment and lay on a bed with him if she didn’t want anything to happen? You better believe it.<br>
Encouraging street-smart behavior is not blaming the victim.
We live in a pretty tough place these days…and there’s no college campus or city that’s immune.</p>

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<p>Nobody is condoning violence. </p>

<p>I’ve hesitated posting this next bit, and I’m really, really not trying to be political, just trying to get some of y’all to feel the emotion of the moment (and if you don’t like the example I used , please just look past it and insert one of your own) - I was going to respond to a very political poster yesterday who clearly knows nothing about fan behavior with something they might understand better: </p>

<p>What the OSU jersey boys did was the equivalent (in the minds of the PSU fans) to a fella showing up at a NARAL open bar cocktail party at drunk-thirty wearing a T-shirt with an ultrasound depiction of a fetus with their “Abortion is Murder” slogan. Things aren’t going to go well. No meaningful discourse is going to happen in that place at that time.</p>

<p>It may not have been a thrown beer can , but I can sure see a drink ending up in somebody’s face. ;)</p>

<p>It was a taunt. Pure and simple.</p>

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<p>^ LOL…Love the NARAL example.</p>

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<p>“Maybe i’m just not smart enough”</p>

<p>No not at all. It just like many here the assumption that everybody else thinks exactly like you do, when it reality they don’t. We always think people will act appropriately, respectfully and with a logical thought pattern. BOY are we wrong!</p>

<p>When you overuse the word “should” you are missing the concept that others don’t act or believe the same things you do. </p>

<p>My education came when we stopped being a turn the other cheek family…I wanted my kids to experience a different life than me, one free of violence and cruelty. But you know what? really ain’t possible. In middle school years S was beaten by three kids everyday on the walk home from school. They would hit him with recycle bins and garbage cans and whatever they could find. All the while a larger group of kids cheered the attackers on…</p>

<p>We did the other cheek gig, we talked to the school, did all those “things” you’re supposed to. The final straw for me was coming home finding my 7th grade son huddled in a ball under the table afraid to move, becasue he thought one of the gang was on their way over… </p>

<p>My son wouldn’t fight back because “we” were so against it… Well, enough of this. I pulled him out from under the table and we talked. We talked about how to fight a group (been there, done that) of attackers. Get yours, never go to ground…etc… </p>

<p>A couple days later then the three jumped them, he stood up for himslef. Broke one kids nose, split the lip of another and the third ran away… </p>

<p>Yes, he was suspended for a week, which was absolutely fine. Never ever bothered by those three again. He had to fight two more times through HS, again suspended, but graduated as val and outstanding senior male voted by teachers at the HS. Never started a thing, but didna’t turn the other cheek anymore either. </p>

<p>The point is when you think everybody should act the way you do, your bound for dissappointment. </p>

<p>Sooz, gar and cgm, it’s not that several of us really disagree with you. It’s just some of us have been around the block enough to know the should’s and the reals are often far apart.</p>

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<p>Opie–see my post above where I mention my D’s assault. (maybe more details are needed–should I describe the broken nose, black eyes, damaged vessels in her eyes, bruised kidneys?). Her crime–jogging in her neighborhood park at 3 in the afternoon.</p>

<p>I know what real is.</p>

<p>Violence will never change if we agree that, in the immortal words of that fascist, Alexander Pope-- “whatever is, is right.”</p>

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<p>garland.

</p>

<p>Then criticize the violence. You’ll have few that disagree with you. The posters that I am addressing are those criticizing far more than the beer cans (the violence).</p>

<p>garland , I’m very sorry about your daughter. That had to be awful . I can’t imagine how I would feel. Actually- I probably can imagine but I don’t want to imagine how I’d feel. I might pop a gasket. I hope she has recovered fully.</p>

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<p>Physically, she is fine now. Emotionally? Well, she’ll probably walk down too many dark alleys to prove she’s not afraid. that’s how she is.</p>

<p>What bothered me most, here, is not people criticizing far less, but excusing far more. Maybe the OSU students were “looking for it” but the same brush seems to tar wearing the wrong jersey to the wrong game, as if that too is looking for it (not just supporting your team.)</p>

<p>Was at a Mets/Yankee game at Shea last spring. Saw a lot of followers of the Evil Empire wearing their jerseys. Didn’t feel a need to jump any of them. If a fellow fan of mine had, I hope I’d speak out against it.</p>

<p>Oh, and yeah, I did definitely scream till I was hoarse!</p>