Hi
Looking at Washington and Lee and Davidson college. Just stumbled upon info that subject tests are “recommended”. How important is that. It’s going to be tough to fit the tests in this fall for my senior. Is it best to do them if recommended??
Usually means that they expect applicants from high-opportunity situations (e.g. upper middle class background / high school in upper middle class area or which regularly sends students to highly selective colleges, or high-academic private high school) to have them, but may be more understanding if those from low-opportunity situations (e.g. lower income, first generation to college, high school rarely sends graduates beyond the local public university, so applicant may not know about subject tests before it is too late to take them) do not have them.
Hmmm ok well not sure I totally agree that the schools are looking at a students “background” to that degree. I hope not. All students should be treated the same and based on merit and potential success no matter where they come from. If one student is expected to have the tests then all students should be.
Additionally, Washington and Lee is a fully meets need school so a lower income student can make this school work financially more so than a middle class/upper middle student who could never afford the price tag. If we don’t get merit there is no way these school could happen.
For a similar or even slightly lesser level of achievement, a college may see the one from a low opportunity environment as more meritous, because s/he had to come further. For example, if two people were in a running race, but one had to start substantially behind the other, which one would you say is the faster runner if they arrived at the finish line close to each other?
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?id=234207#finaid indicates that only 6% of frosh and 9% of all undergraduates at W&L get Pell grants, indicating that very few from below median income families attend W&L.
Next testing date is August 25, register by July 27. Can you make that one? There’s also one on Oct. 6. I think that gives you time to do one more regular SAT if needed plus one subject test testing date before any early decision application materials would have to be in.
For highly selective colleges, “recommended” generally means mandatory. Could a student be admitted without those tests? Sure. But my guess is that student would have to have something pretty unusual to help them stand out. That is why my poor, exhausted daughter will be waking up at a stupid early time tomorrow morning to take yet more exams. She knows the kids she will be competing against will have taking those tests.
Agree with @ucbalumnus - many colleges absolutely have different expectations, our high school (affluent, high achieving) guidance counselors generally say no school is ‘test optional’ and recommended = required for our students. Exceptions to be sure, but good rule of thumb
@gallentjill Same for my exhausted junior daughter today, this year has been painful. Good luck to your daughter!
Just fyi, if you’re not doing early ED, your student can submit SAT Subject Tests from the Dec 2018 test dates too b/c scores come back pretty quick. My D did took Bio this past Dec. and sent them the scores in Jan of this year. She waited b/c she wanted to have as much of her AP Bio class behind her as possible b4 taking the Subject Test.
I agree with others that anything listed as recommended is something they expect to see from kids from environments where it’s reasonable to assume there’s access to info and resources abut these things.
Remember you don’t have to submit them all – my D took 5 and only submitted the 3 where she had 700+ scores.
Good luck to all our kids today. May the testing be over soon!
Did you see the information on Naviance/similar or on the school admissions website? For Washington and Lee at least, it says they are not required and I got in RD without them. I did email admissions to confirm while I was still considering whether or not to apply and they said they would be considered if submitted, but a student would not be penalized for not having them. I was not a finalist for the Johnson scholarship, however, and that seems to be a consideration for you as that’s the only merit they have available.
I’m afraid I don’t know as much about Davidson, but a quick perusal of the website told me that they officially say the same thing about subject tests as W&L. I checked both schools’ Common Data Sets as well. W&L’s says “Considered if submitted” and Davidson doesn’t say anything at all.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that they’re truly optional, considering I come from a rural public high school in a state that’s underrepresented at W&L. If you’re at a school/living in an area where it’s common to take them, I suspect it would be a good idea to take them too. However, if your student doesn’t do well, I suspect it won’t hurt them as badly to not submit as it would at a place that recommends SAT subject tests.
Many schools say something to the effect that a student won’t be penalized/disadvantaged for not sending in subject tests. However, students can be advantaged by submitting them, which is important to understand. Of course subject tests are just one small piece of the overall picture, but positioning the application in the best light with all possible advantages is a good goal.
This seems like a logical fallacy. If two students have nearly identical stats and extras, if one is “advantaged” the other is necessarily disadvantaged. If you know you are competing with many kids in your geographic area, at your socioeconomic level, and with similar stats, you really can’t afford to let other kids get “advantaged.”
Now, this really only applies at the very top selective programs. For many schools with reasonable admit rates, “suggested” probably does mean “suggested.”
Some schools will accept the ACT scores in lieu of recommended SAT II’s, but if you haven’t taken the ACT, why not take 2 subject tests.
@gallentjill I don’t think it’s a zero sum game, and don’t necessarily see a per se disadvantage to an applicant if another has an ‘advantage’. Said differently, in your example, one student can be advantaged and the other not disadvantaged (or penalized).
Some schools that say students won’t be penalized for not submitting subject test scores do consider them if sent in, as they are trying to put each app in the best possible light, so some students absolutely get an advantage. And I think the schools are being honest that the apps without the scores were not penalized.
Saying they’re only recommended doesn’t mean you’re still in an ok competitive position without them. That simple. THey may not officially “penalize,” but that says little. It’s not an “if you feel like it.” Double that for any college looking for a level of awareness and drives. Certainly, that includes W&L and Davisdon.
And lower SES kids do take them. It’s not possible to generalize for kids who are qualified for a competitive college. What may shift is the expectation that kids in underresourced high schools match the level of scores found in top school districts.
@Mwfan1921 Actually, I think this is almost the definition of a zero sum game. There are only so many spots at these elite schools. Every acceptance they give to one student reduces the pie by one spot. Again, this is only an issue at the top programs with very low admit rates.
Here’s what each college’s website says about subject tests. Nowhere did it say they are recommended.
W&L: SAT Subject Tests are not required for admission to W&L.
Davidson: If applicants have taken SAT Subject Tests, Davidson welcomes but does not require those scores.
“If we don’t get merit there is no way these school could happen.”
Do know that neither school gives out tons of merit based aid. According to section H of each school’s Common Data Set:
Davidson gave merit aid to only 19 non-athlete first year students this past year.
W&L was slightly better awarding merit aid to 32 non-athlete first year students this year.
“Davidson welcomes but does not require those scores.”
Davidson has a 20% admit rate. I would err on the side of submitting subject tests as not having them will put you at a disadvantage.
^ yup. Make yourserlf competitive.
The fact they aren’t “required” isn’t the ultimate consideration.
@gallentjill I am saying subject test consideration is not zero sum, students with them can be advantaged, those without not necessarily penalized.