<p>I have a quick question and don’t want to make a legal mistake (i have done those in the past from lack of experiance)</p>
<p>So I am going off to college and moved out of the dorms. I am now renting an apartment via a sublease. Basicually, a landlord of a 20 unit apartment rent out three bedroom apartments, and a man whose daughter goes to my college rented out the whole unit and is now renting out the rooms individually to girls at my college such as me.</p>
<p>I already signed a lease, but now the subleaser now wants me to give them my social security number AND driver’s license. Apparently, its becuase the real landlord wants it or so the man that I am subleasing from says. </p>
<p>I have a friend that a while back rented an apartment that was “with all utilities included”
The lease itself said nothing about utilities becuase the package was rent + complete utilities including electricity and gas. Well, apparently she used up a bit more gas than neighboring tenets, and now the landlord is threatening to report her into a credit report becuase she refuses to pay for that since she never signed anything about utilities with anybody at all (not even the utility company). However, the landlord can’t report becuase the landlord only has cleared checks from her and a driver’s license and that’s it. But if the landlord did have her SSN, you bet she would pull that stunt and my friend would have to spent lots of time disputing it with her credit buereau!</p>
<p>I’m afraid that might happen to me. </p>
<p>Am I obligated to give the man im subleasing from my SSN? I mean, it’s not THEIR SSN, and so what if they want to pull a stunt like that on me, or if they don’t take good care to shred the papers and BOOM! One day I have identity theft? It would be impossible to prove that it’s becuase they never shreded their documents…</p>
<p>I also have a credit report from Experian that I saved onto my computer. It’s about 8 pages long. </p>
<p>Am I obligated to give the Man my SSN? Can’t I just give him my credit report printout?
I mean the man is really demanding the SSN, saying that it is vital, but lots of people say they really need stuff when they don’t…</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Always get the contract in writing
If your friend had a contract stating utilities were included and didn’t have a ‘maximum usage’ clause, then the landlord could not have collected additional money from her. She could have fought it anyway but with a written contract in hand the landlord likely wouldn’t have ever tried to pull this stunt to extract more money from her.</p></li>
<li><p>You’re not obligated to give your SSN, DL, or credit report to them but the landlord also doesn’t have to rent to you. It’s up to you to decide whether you’re willing to give it or not.</p></li>
<li><p>It’s not unusual for a landlord to ask for the SSN so they can do a credit check.</p></li>
<li><p>The landlord doesn’t need your SSN in order to report you to a credit bureau so not giving it is no assurance there’ll be no report.</p></li>
<li><p>I agree that you should be wary of handing over your SSN. I avoid it as much as possible and also wouldn’t trust their handling of it. However, again, it’s not unusual for a landlord to ask for it.</p></li>
<li><p>It’s not unusual for landlords to go after the renters for additional money - often unwarranted and illegally. They typically hot up for extra cleaning and damage fees and want to keep most or all of the deposit even though they’re not permitted to without good cause. This is (IMO) especially true for college students since the landlord knows they’re inexperienced renters and often on a tight schedule for move-in/move-out and often move completely out of the area. This seems to happen more at smaller places, especially the mom and pop ones or small corporation ones, than larger ones in my experience. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>If you’re already renting and living there I don’t know why they’re just now asking for this info since they should have done it prior to the lease if they wanted the info. Did you just move in or have you been there a while? You can always just refuse to give it to them. The worst they can do is give you notice to move out but it’s highly unlikely they’d do that if you’re paying rent on time. You can just tell them you prefer not to give out that personal info.</p>
<p>Well thanks for your reply!</p>
<p>I was wondering if you could help me a little more with my friend.
Her contract for her rental has nothing on it at all stating <em>anything</em> about utilities. </p>
<p>There was a verbal agreement that all utilities are included. She signed a rent for three months and paid on time, etc. </p>
<p>But, not that she moved out and is in another state, the landlord is threatening reporting to the credit burueu that she never paid utiltiies as apparently the “verbal agreement” only included $80 worth of utilities and it was snowing there so she needed to heat up the apartment now and then.</p>
<p>However, there is nothing in writing with anybody or any parties with regards to utilties. </p>
<p>The landlord only came after her a week before she moved out, and the landlord is also old and very forgetful but even so, there’s nothing in writing. </p>
<p>Anyways, if anybody could help that would be great</p>
<p>The landlord, IMO, doesn’t have a leg to stand on in this case. She should tell him that the agreement was very simple - that utilities were included and there were no exclusions or limits stated and that she doesn’t owe him any money. If he threatens to report her to a credit reporting service then she should tell him that she’ll contact the governmental rental oversight department for that locality - many areas have them. She can also dispute the claim with the credit agency. Since he has no written contract, which is a big no-no in his business, he’s clearly not in the right. He’s just trying to blackmail her into giving him more money and he thinks he can intimidate her because she’s a young college student. It’s despicable on his part. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t give in to him if I was her and if he really reports her, which he probably wouldn’t do, especially when she says she’ll contact the governmental agencies (she should get the correct name for the department in that area), then she can dispute it (and follow up and report his behavior to the government agency). She can also see if there’s a free legal counsel she can seek who could perhaps write the landlord a letter or at least guide her as to what to do. </p>
<p>People should beware who they rent from and get everything in writing and READ the contract and agree to it before they sign it. There should be NO verbal agreements in a business transaction like this. If there’s some other item the two parties agree on that’s not in the stock contract then they should write it in as an addendum and both sign and date it. It makes it all much simpler for everyone. If the place doesn’t have a rental contract I wouldn’t rent there - it’s best to look for someplace with more professional management.</p>
<p>Gosh, as a landlord my self, I’d say most everything UCLAdad has said is right. I cannot agree with a part of his post 4, where he says since there is no written contract, the (landlord) is clearly not in the right. I think just the opposite. Because there is no written contract, there is no clear answer. ucladad is right, this all should be in writing, and there should be no verbal agreements, but sometimes there are. I have seen judges uphold verbal agreements, but they are difficult to prove. But difficult to prove is not the same as untrue. As anyone that has been to court knows, each party may feel they have a strong case yet both do not win.</p>
<p>And I’d like to add to his post 2, to be fair. He is correct, in what he said, but he left out a bit. He said “It’s not unusual for landlords to go after the renters for additional money -” Yes he’s correct, in part. I’d add it is often warranted and quite legal. Some landlords whether 1 unit or 100 units take pride in their rentals. Some prospective tenants love the look of a fresh, clean unit when they are looking but feel cheated if they must pay to restore it as it was for the next tenant. Sometimes they don’t grasp that aspects/features that were so appealing when they were looking become expectations of them when they leave. Normal wear is not the same as dirty. Even when there is a written lease, often tenants(esp young ones) don’t read or may not fully understand their agreement and then later claim they were cheated only because they didn’t know what they signed. A landlord often gets a unit back dirtier, damaged, or with rent owed, and to quote ucladad- “This is (IMO) especially true for college students since the landlord knows they’re inexperienced renters and often on a tight schedule for move-in/move-out and often move completely out of the area.” In his example, I’d say don’t blame the LL for a tenant that didn’t plan well to get out.</p>
<p>I think my posts came off as too negative of landlords which isn’t what I meant - I was trying to point out the difference between a decent, honest, and competent landlord and one who isn’t and the specific cases the OP indicated. Unfortunately there are too many who’ll extract as much money as they can but of course not all landlords do this which is why one needs to be careful in who they rent from. For example, they can’t charge the renter for normal wear and tear which many try to do but they can charge for filth and damage left by the tenant which unfortunately some tenants cause.</p>
<p>Regarding the written contract - it’s supposed to be a professional business and everything should be in writing. A verbal agreement is legally binding but then it comes down to one’s word against the other and in the case described by the OP I would hope a judge would rule against the landlord since it’s clearly very arbitrary, conflicts with the written contract (assuming there was one and the written contract stated ‘utilities included’) and likely fraudulent and IMO the onus for a clear contract (i.e. written and signed) s/b on the landlord who’s supposedly running a business. When there’s a written contract in place I think any verbal addendums carry little weight since and addendums should be added to the already existing written contract. At least that’s what Judge Judy says ;).</p>
<p>I agree that a lot of tenants don’t really read or understand the written contract or question ambiguous areas but they need to if they want to be clear on what the costs will be. They also need to take care of the place as if they owned it, keep it clean, and not cause damage. Stains, damaged flooring, holes in the wall, etc. aren’t ‘normal wear and tear’.</p>
<p>ucladad is correct that written contracts can’t be modified verbally on Judge Judy, and also in Ohio. But some contracts might not mention utilities(for example) then either party could claim there was a verbal agreement and that wouldn’t be conflicting with the written agreement. Ohio generally follows what is known as the 4 corners rule.
Normal wear is hard to define, too. How about nail holes from pictures, normal? I can say definitively the answer is maybe. Such holes at the end of a yrs lease prob yes, but such holes if a tenant vacates after 3 mos of a yrs contract then prob not.
Much about the law provides for a judges’ discretion and that makes it a gamble any time a person goes to court in LL-tenant cases. </p>
<p>Thanks to ucladad for elaborating on the good and bad.</p>
<p>If the OP’s friend didn’t have to arrange to get utilities set up in her name when she moved in, I’d say that’s pretty good circumstantial evidence that utilities would be paid for by the LL.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, OP, if you are signing a lease, BE SURE to get any oral understandings <em>put into writing</em> on a lease. If the LL uses a standard contract, it is perfectly OK to write it on the form and then both of you date and initial the addendum.</p>
<p>In college, a good friend of mine was renting a house, her roommate graduated from law school and the friend asked me to move in. LL was delighted and wanted me to sign a lease. I wanted the protection. A couple of months later I found out the real reason – the LL had previously negotiated individual leases with my roommate and her friend. When I came into the picture and signed a new lease, we were not jointly and severally liable for the entire amount of the rent (which is actually the more typical arrangement, and what I had assumed friend and the prior roommate had as well). Apparently dear friend from HS had major debt problems and owed the LL lots of $$, and he was charging her 12% MONTHLY interest – and got away with it because the LL threatened to have her arrested over bounced checks.</p>
<p>End of story: I could not afford to pay both halves of rent, LL was taking the current rent I was paying on behalf of both of us under the current and applying it to friend’s prior debt, so I was considered late, etc. Had to ask friend to leave. BF (now DH) read contract, helped me write a letter to the LL, and I learned a lot. This was a LL in a college town who managed a few small properties through his RE firm. Real sleazebag. </p>
<p>My mom worked for a RE company and the nightmare stories of what tenants did to houses they rented were just as appalling, so I can understand that LLs want to protect their investment and have recourse if folks trash the place.</p>