My child plans to ED to a T10 and she is wondering about submitting 4’s on two AP tests she took this year (Chem & Bio.) Her GPA is a 4.0 UW (out of 4.0, her school does not weight grades) and she has a 36 on her ACT, high class rigor, and competitive EC’s. Will the 4’s help or hurt? I should add that her private school does not technically have AP classes, so I don’t think there is an expectation to submit scores, though many students still take the tests and submit. Her high school phased out AP classes years ago and replaced them with their own version of advanced classes. The classes are very challenging (I have been told even more challenging than AP’s), but don’t necessarily follow the AP curriculum, so definitely not teaching to the test. She had planned to do some self studying but ended up getting pneumonia in the spring and missed a bunch of school so ended up prioritizing getting caught up at school and finishing with strong grades rather than studying for the AP tests. Should she submit 4’s?
If the school applying to gives credit, sure.
A 4 is outstanding and it shows that the student is able to handle the material. It may not help but likely won’t hurt. The fact that the classes are not APs - probably provides less impact - since she didn’t take the classes themselves.
If they only give credit for a 5, then no reason to.
Her gpa (and rank and rigor) and 36 will say a lot.
Does the college give credit or advanced placement for those AP 4 scores?
Will she be pre-med, and want to repeat general chemistry and biology in college? If so, the it may be better not to have AP credit that would require marking repeat on the medical school application if she repeats general chemistry and biology in college.
In terms of admissions to such colleges, I think it is EXTREMELY likely two 4s would make no difference at all to their decision. Not help, not hurt, just be a non-event. Nor for more 4s, but you asked about two.
That is because what both 4s and 5s show is you learned what you were supposed to learn, which they expect. Technically if one kid had a lot more 5s and the other a lot more 4s, on the same APs taken at the same time, and all else equal, you might conclude the kid with the 5s was a bit better at taking AP-style tests. Which is not important to begin with. And then all else is never actually equal, and so as soon as I learn this kid got a 36, say, that erases any (not important) thought I would have had about testing anyway.
So if it doesn’t matter, what should they do? Well, I agree if you are thinking premed, you have to be really careful about things like credit and placement to make sure you are not going to end up taking classes you would not otherwise want to take. But then credit CAN be nice, so . . . just be cautious.
Otherwise, I think there is a lot to be said for just feeling like you submitted your best applications, even if in truth it doesn’t really matter.
So if she is proud of her AP 4s and thinks they are helpful–great! If she is worried they would be harmful, OK, don’t submit. Again, between us, the odds of her somehow getting this wrong in a way that makes a difference are vanishingly small. So whatever she feels most confident about, I think is fine.
In most cases I’d agree with @NiceUnparticularMan and others here, and I think it’s probably true that it’s fine either way, but in this specific case, I would not send the scores to admissions. Your daughter has a perfect GPA and a “perfect” standardized test score, is applying to a highly selective university, and is coming from a likely-highly-well-regarded independent school where AP tests are not expected to be taken. I don’t see any scenario where the 4s help with admissions, and you want everything you choose to include in the application to be helpful.
Note that if your daughter is admitted there (or anywhere else), she will have an opportunity to submit scores for credit - that can be a completely separate process from admissions.
Good luck!
I should add that her private school does not technically have AP classes, so I don’t think there is an expectation to submit scores, though many students still take the tests and submit.
Just curious, why did she take the AP tests, then, if her school doesn’t offer the classes?
Also, presumably your private school has good college counselors that can also weigh in, but I do agree that it seems unlikely a 4 would either help or hurt
In the big picture, many private schools don’t offer AP courses, but their courses are aligned closely enough with the content of the AP tests for students to do well on them. The downside is that either the school has to offer the tests (which CB may not allow) or the students have to find a seat for the tests in other HSs (which can also be difficult, as many homeschoolers know.)
I am of the belief that AP exam scores are not all that relevant. My son is attending a HYPSM school, and was admitted to another T10 and several T25’s without submitting a single AP exam score. He did ok on the exams…a mix of 4’s and 5’s, but did not feel that the exam scores enhanced his application. He similarly had a perfect standardized test score, and a perfect weighted and unweighted GPA, supplemented with a focused set of EC’s. In short, I don’t think it will matter if the AP exam scores are submitted. Taking the AP courses and doing well in the courses themselves are essential, however (if offered by the school, obviously).
And of course sometimes people really benefit from the credit they can get. Less likely at the colleges the OP mentioned, but in other cases it could represent a significant savings compared to the cost of preparing for and taking the tests (at least once you have taken a related advanced class).
A number of high schools (including our competitive public HS) have chosen not to offer AP classes. The AP curriculum is very rigid and some schools prefer to have more leeway so develop their own classes. Many of these advanced (but not official AP) high school classes closely mirror the AP curriculum (particularly in STEM classes at our school). In other classes, students need to self-study certain topics covered in the AP exam but not in the HS class.
At our HS it is not at all unusual for students to take AP exams hoping to get college credit – these AP exams are not required and have no bearing on the class grade.
NOW BACK TO THE OP – I would concur with @movingtothebeach and see no benefit to sending the scores. If they will earn credit at the college, the scores can be sent at a later time.
Just reading answers here and taking into account highly competitive Top 10 college admissions, I agree with the consensus view to definitely submit 5’s, probably not submit 4’s, and definitely do not submit 3’s. This is for admissions, separate from placement or getting course credit which comes much later anyway.
In answer to your question, the curriculum of the Advanced Chem & Bio classes at her high school are pretty similar to the AP curriculum, they just go deeper on some subjects and maybe skip over some others. The Advanced English & History curriculums are very different from the AP’s, but the math and science classes have stayed somewhat similar so many students do still opt to take the AP tests in math and science. She had planned to study for the tests and was hoping for 5’s, but with the pneumonia and needing to prioritize getting caught up at school, she wasn’t able to study at all. Anyway, I do think she should be proud of the 4’s given the classes don’t align perfectly and she didn’t study for the tests, but I tend to agree that with her grades and ACT, the 4’s might detract more than assist her application. Thanks for all the advice!