Sump Pump- battery backup?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Can anyone direct me on this?</p>

<p>We’ve mulled over generators, versus sump pump with battery, versus MOVING as solutions to our old house with wet basement too often these days mess.</p>

<p>Decided that generator is overkill, too expensive and too much hands on required for us.
We are specifically looking to keep furnace, laundry, etc from going underwater when storms take power out for extended time and our basement floods due to inoperable existing sump.</p>

<p>Neighbor gave us flyer for company that installed their new sump pump with a battery backup. Couple other companies I’ve heard of as well. But mostly we’re clueless and I HATE buying a pricey item with no knowledge of what I’m doing.</p>

<p>So, anything you can tell me? Specific brands to buy/avoid? How long does the battery backup last? Do you have a backup battery for the backup battery for REALLY long outages? Where does one buy or recharge these batteries? CAN they be recharged?
You get the picture, I’m clueless.</p>

<p>Any help appreciated.</p>

<p>EDIT: This probably belongs in the CAFE section…maybe a mod can move it there for me? Sorry about that.</p>

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<p>I have a battery backup, but it only buys you about 4-5 hours after losing power…your results would be determined by how often backup operates during power loss…there is a type of sump pump that is powerd by water pressure,and it likleynwouldn’t be affected bynpower loss,unless you have well water,then wouldn’t work.this might be somehting to look into</p>

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<p>The water pressured ones may not have the capacity to pump out in an emergency… </p>

<p>I have a full finished lower level (walkout) in a state known for its idiotic weather (an inch or two of rain per hour on occasion) plus long steady two or three inches of rain in a day, and worst case scenario, 10 inches in a day. Heavy clay soil and high water tables. Since we’re living in the civilized part of the country :slight_smile: power losses of more than a few hours are unheard of. The big issue is losing power during a storm and having enough capacity to pump out in case bad rain hits.</p>

<p>My setup includes a 1/2 hp primary powered by 120V wall socket and TWO backups (battery) the Basement WatchDog AC/DC. Awesome pumps, full time pump capacity 8 hours, etc etc.</p>

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<p>Turbo, you describe my area exactly…i also have the Watchdog, do you have 2 in the sump well in addition to main sump pump? My friends swear ynthe water pressure ones, and given the heavy rains we have experienced in the last few months, they have had no issue with capacity</p>

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<p>We have a battery back up sump pump in case we are not home when the power fails; up to 6 hours. Then, we have a propane generator that takes over when we get home to turn it on…</p>

<p>Didn’t need the pump last week, but the generator was a life saver; we were out of power for 7 days</p>

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<p>I have several friends/neighbors with the water pressure sump and are happy with it. Granted our town lost water pressure during Irene, but that was a freak occurance and they didn’t lose power.</p>

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<p>There’s a hill above our house. Without a sump pump our basement would flood every time storm comes through. One time the primary and secondary pumps failed. I came home to three feet of water in the basement. I installed two quality underwater pumps, put them on separate electrical circuits, and bought a generator. (I have good neighbors, and can call them if everyone’s out-of-town.) If things are truly desperate, I also can run a siphon … I’ve never had to fortunately.</p>

<p>My brother, whose house is similarly situated, installed one of the 12-volt back up pumps for those occasions when the power was out. The first time the back up was needed the pump wouldn’t start. He replaced the pump. The next time he needed it the pump ran for twenty minutes then failed. He purchased a generator after that to power his primary pumping system.</p>

<p>Quality 120V underwater sump pumps are cheap and reliable. If you’re really serious about backup, I’d suggest installing two 120V pumps and put one on something like this:
[PumpSitter</a> | Automated Utility Backup System | Sump Pump Backup Power Supply](<a href=“HugeDomains.com”>HugeDomains.com)</p>

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<p>My dad has a small diesel generator. He is NOT at all mechanical (REALLY not, trust me), and he manages to make it work when needed (sump pump and freezer are the things they run it for when needed). He keeps it up in the garage, and just runs it out in the driveway (or in the open garage door if the weather is bad) with extension cords as needed (his freezer is in the garage, and he just cracks the door from the house into the garage for the extension cord down to the sump pump as needed).</p>

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<p>Get a generator if you have a sump pump. It can be used for many more hours than a battery. We know folks who needed one through Hurricane Irene and now (snowstorm in the NE…no power for a week).</p>

<p>You can get a small one that will only power the sump pump…or you can get something that will also power some things in your house during a power outage. Good insurance if nothing else.</p>

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<p>musicmom,
Sounds like you live in my house. I am in CT and 5 years ago we did a large addition. We have a high water table so our sump pumps even in a minor rain storm. Soon after our addition we experienced 2 storms within a year’s time that put my new finished game room underwater. Two insurance losses at over $15,000 and we didn’t even lose power, the pump just couldn’t keep up with 5 inches of rain. My contractor came back and addressed the pumping capacity and solved that issue but we then started to worry about what would happen if we should lose power for long periods of time, we would have a major loss on our hands. After completing our addition we opted for a battery backup called sumpro. It is quite large (it sits on a portable square dolly in an exercise room near the pump closet). You have to plug the pump into the battery unit so that once the power goes out the backup will kick on. The sumpro is plugged into a wall outlet where the battery is constantly being charged, but once that power goes out the battery back up only works for about 7-8 hours. The battery backup is expensive about $1800 and the replacement batteries run about $350 and last a few years.<br>
We got the battery backup when we completed our addition after checking out the cost of a permanent generator. I didn’t like the idea of having an exposed propane tank in the yard either so we opted for the battery backup. After having 2 losses and never losing power, my husband and I started to rethink our decision. Once we addressed the pumping capacity issue we used to freak when we heard that there could be power outages from storms. We decided to go ahead and bite the bullet and get a generator (it cost about $15,000). We purchased a generac generator and chose to bury the propane tank (275 gallons) underground. It is the best decision that we ever made! In the last 2 years, we have had 3 major storms that kept our power out for days! In the last 2 months between Hurricane Irene and this past Halloween storm we were without power for nearly 6 days. My house would have been underwater if not for the generator.<br>
I have lived in my home for over 25 years and we have lost power more in the last 2 years than in the previous 20! I can’t tell you what a relief having that generator is. Yes, it is expensive but the loss from one flood covers the cost of getting it. We have great homeowner’s insurance and they paid for our 2 previous losses before the generator but I have heard that alot of insurance companies don’t cover flood losses without flood insurance.
We pay $300/yr to have the generator serviced twice a year. The cost of the propane runs about $400 to fill the tank assuming it is near empty when refilled. The unit itself sits on the side of my garage surrounded by some shrubbery and looks like a large rectangular box. Some people think it is an air conditioner compressor. My house is large and the only thing I can’t do is use the oven, dryer or central air because it just draws too much power. But it operates the furnace, hot water heater and all other appliances. I highly recommend getting a generator, the peace of mind alone is worth it. I see you live in NJ and I know from living in the tri state area flooding is an issue (and power outages) there. I would put the $2000 you would spend for a quality battery back up toward the price of a generator. When the lights go out, 12 seconds later that baby starts up and the lights come back on! You don’t have to do a thing. When power is restored it takes 8 minutes to shut down. My generator can go about 8-10 days without a refill. I have put up friends and family when they have been without power for days and everyone comes to my house to charge their phones and laptops and to shower.<br>
Look into them before buying the battery unit. You may be able to get a good price during the winter. Check out lots of installers as their prices vary and make sure you have a professional do the work. Good luck. There are some people still out of power here in CT and it is 10 days after the storm.</p>

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<p>Just wanted to say that this thread is great! We have a sump pump, and have been worried about losing it during bad storms (usually nor’easters). We have debated the generator vs battery backup, and still have neither. H actually bought a generator when Irene was coming, but we didn’t use it and returned it to the store. I was told that the battery backup thing cost only about $200 (vs $1K for a generator). Apparently not so. Will be looking into it further.</p>

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<p>Wow!
I am blown away by all the detailed responses. Thank you all for taking the time to educate me…Now I have alot to digest.
Maybe a ‘small’ generator IS the way to go.
For Irene, 6-8 hrs on a battery would have been insufficient.</p>

<p>IrishMary…thanks for all the specifics. sounds like you have your wet basement under control.</p>

<p>It is hard to know what the right thing to do is. Our basement will NEVER be finished. It has a concrete floor and stone walls. As in boulders piled up to make walls. Old, old house. Just want to not lose our furnace, hot water heater, washer, dryer, etc.</p>

<p>Our neighbor’s contractor that put in just the battery back up sump for her charged $1600.<br>
I will have to study all the info. Thanks for the brand names of products too, that helps.</p>

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<p>I have had to learn the hard way about sump pumps - The stuff is not taught in Civil Engineering textbooks and few references exist as to the proper sizing of sumps. So, here’s a page or two from my knowledge base.</p>

<p>Primary Pump</p>

<p>The few references I found suggest one needs as many GPH (Gallons Per Hour) as they have Sq Ft in the basement - under good soil and drainage and weather and water table. Meaning, in nice sandy soil, decent non-crazy weather, and low water table, a 2000 sq ft basement needs a 2000 GPH pump. That’s a 1/3 HP. In practice, 2000 sq ft basement in clay soil with stupid weather (several inches of rain in a 24 hour period PLUS 2+ inches per hour) and high water table and you’re looking at a lot more than 2000 GPH, more like 3400 GPH. In my 2000 sq ft basement after stupid rainfall (as described above) and with heavy clay soil and water table a foot or two under the (half) basement floor, 3400 is about right - read, 1/2 HP and GOOD quality pump at that. </p>

<p>The easiest way is to see how often the pump runs if you get the once a year 3-5 inches of rain. If it runs for a few seconds, then idle for a minute, then runs again for a few seconds, that’s one thing. If it runs 50% of the time, or worse, or runs straight, then you have a problem. </p>

<p>The worst case scenario is a steady rain not uncommon in the Midwest on and off for a few days to saturate the soil, then a nasty storm that drops 2-4 inches in a day. If your current pump runs once a minute for 10 seconds in such conditions, good for you. If it runs at 50% duty, good luck.</p>

<p>Water Powered Backups</p>

<p>The backups that are based on water work well when you don’t really have that much to pump out AND you have decent water pressure. Here in the flatlands the water pressure is barely adequate (not even 40psi) while other places get nearly twice that. Your utility can tell you how much or you can ask your friendly plumber.</p>

<p>Battery Backups</p>

<p>Battery backup works pretty well. The pumps I have give 2200 GPH for 8 hours, and I’ve seen it run straight for 4 hours eating half the battery. The good ones have LED’s or other indicators, and have a computer unit to control the discharge/charge cycle etc. The one I like is the Basement WatchDog AC/DC which can run either 120V or 12V. The ability to run at 120V is great in case the primary pump can’t keep up with the flow.</p>

<p>Are the battery backups infallible? no. They, too, fail, or they can’t keep up. Since our lower level is nearly all finished we have a pair of the backups. The primary has its own discharge pipe, and each of the backups has its own separate pipe as well. </p>

<p>The cost for each unit is $600 @ Home Depot plus $100-200 installation. Battery lasts around 6-8 years. You can double up the batteries for longer life. </p>

<p>Generators</p>

<p>The problem is that no battery backup will run for a week - if you’re in Noreaster land, or Katrina land, a generator may be a better option. In such case you need both a battery backup (in case the primary pump dies or can’t keep up) and a generator to provide juice.</p>

<p>Bottom Line</p>

<p>You have to understand your requirements first. For a larger house in iffy weather and soil, 1/2 HP is minimum. Or, don’t do a basement :-). Do not expect the builder, the building inspector, or the plumber to know any of the above. I had to calculate a lot of things the hard way before figuring out worst case scenarios - for example, the hardest rain ever in our state was 3 1/2 inches per hour. An hour of that and no consumer grade sump pump in the world will be able to pump it out fast enough where I am. So, a single backup may not be sufficient…</p>

<p>Remember the basics: Pumping capacity, Redundancy, and Duration of Outages. And, always look out for new stuff. The PumpSitter described above is quite an interesting idea.</p>