Support for the Kid that never gets picked

Parents Forum
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<p>" In college I discovered the big truth that people don’t like to admit, SOMETIMES it IS about who you know. "</p>

<p>This is true, too. That’s why it’s important to get to know people on campus, including administrators, faculty, etc. One can do this by participating in organizations, going to lectures, using office hours, etc.</p>

<p>If the person making the selection has the choice between a student whom they know well, and a student whom they met for the first time at the interview, if the student whom they already knows has the background for the opportunity, they will likely get it. In fact, they may have been asked to apply for it by the person offering the position.</p>

<p>This is true in the real world. I’ve applied and gotten jobs that actually were created for me because of someone whom I knew.</p>

<p>And by “knowing” something, I don’t mean having a shallow relationship, but knowing someone through involvement in activities that were related to the position that I eventually got.</p>

<p>S has been recruited for some jobs, including once having a job created for him, due to relationships with adults that he had gotten to know through his extensive volunteer work (work that he did for fun, not to make contacts).</p>

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<p>Some people naturally gravitate toward influential people. Others don’t. I don’t know if that can be learned or not.</p>

<p>I still face this in my law practice…it’s much better to have your client contact be the person who will eventually be promoted to CEO than the person who will be laid off next week. But we can rarely choose. I guess if a person does not have an innate sense of this, the solution is to get to know as many people as possible.</p>

<p>As for awards in school, some teachers just aren’t into that. At our HS’s awards ceremony, any teacher can choose an “outstanding student,” usually the one with the highest average in the class. I noticed that two of the three pre-AP Geometry teachers gave awards; the other chose not to participate. Pity the student who had the highest average in that teacher’s class…no award.</p>

<p>For things like “Student of the Month” (given at the middle school), some teachers really lobby for their students; other teachers choose not to play. Again, if you’re a terrific student in their classes, no award.</p>

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<p>If it makes people feel better, I was going through some old boxes and ran across an awards program. I was listed for NHS and because apparently I was an usher at the ceremony. I have absolutely no recollection of that entire evening. These HS awards are not that big a deal. :)</p>

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<p>So sorry, danceangel. How is she doing?</p>

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<p>Hopefully, by now she has made it. If not, tell her to keep trying. Sometimes it takes an unfortunately long time. It is the unfair part of life, which is hard for all of us. I am sure most of us have done the “Why me?” at some time in our lives.</p>

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<p>danceangel: I am so sorry, for her and for you. It is painful. </p>

<p>Suggestion: she should go to the student affairs professionals at her school, who are in the business to help students succeed through their efforts outside the classroom, and ask for help. There are numerous SA experts on every campus, the Dean of Students, Student Activities Director, Greek Affairs Adviser, Director of Residence Life and Housing, Cultural Centers, etc. They can tell her how to get involved in activities and personal growth programs which will raise her visibility in areas she wishes to explore and experience. These Deans and Directors are always looking for students who want to be involved, work, develop the skills of the various student life venues. They know how to help students develop as leaders. Good luck to her and hugs to you. Lorelei</p>

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<p>danceangel - I am so sorry to hear that your D did not get the RA position. My D faced a similar situation last year, one that was compounded by the fact that if she did not get a spot, she had no place to live on campus for her junior year. Same outcome - She did not get a spot. My D is constantly passed over for leadership type positions and was one of those overlooked in high school as well. She is a quiet young woman and her quietness is often equated to shyness and that is definitely not the case. She has firm beliefs and commitments and is an incredible worker. She keeps plugging away and I so admire her ability to get knocked down, get up, dust herself off and go forward. She is definitely someone I admire and I know that one day, her star will rise and she will remember the tough climb.
As an aside, I am a middle school teacher and our team needed to choose one young lady on our team to attend a Saturday event at a local company that is focusing on future female leaders. I have a young girl on my team who is a younger version of my daughter, reserved but definitely not shy. She has written several times in her journal about how her friends just do not see the “real” her, that she is not shy, just quiet. You can probably guess what happened. Our team chose her and what a great choice she is. She is attending the event this weekend and I am thrilled she has this opportunity. I am determined to advocate for those quiet leaders among us.</p>

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<p>I’m in the same spot…I’m one of those “You were good, but just not quite good enough” girls too.</p>

<p>10th grade, I got nominated for the HOBY Youth Leadership program and was asked with all the other kids to do an interview. Went in, did it. A few weeks later my counselor calls me in to tell me that I didn’t get it and two other girls did.</p>

<p>Nominated for my SLC’s peer-chosen awards every single year…never got one of them.</p>

<p>Applied for a scholarship through my future college school and basically got a “We don’t want to give you any money, but please feel free to apply for a loan” letter back.</p>

<p>Waiting for word on another scholarship, but I have a feeling I won’t get that either because my parents make too much money.</p>

<p>Now I’ve been nominated for my school’s Hall of Fame…the deadline is tomorrow, and I don’t even feel like turning it in because I know I won’t get it.</p>

<p>How do you get over the discouragement? I’m so tired of hearing “You did really well, your name came up a lot during the decision period, but ______ was just better suited.” I just feel like, what’s the point?</p>

<p>Especially with the scholarship thing. I feel like I worked SO hard during high school and I’m in the top 5% of my class, but it doesn’t even matter because I’m not a poor kid from Compton. And I’m so tired of it. I know I’m a good person and a great student…why don’t THEY see it? (I’ve never had a problem interviewing, btw, so I don’t think that’s the issue).</p>

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<p>How do you get over the discouragement? You realize that most students don’t get nominated for anything, and probably would be delighted to have been even nominated. It is an honor to be nominated for the things you mention. Regardless of whether you get them, celebrate the fact that you stood out enough to be considered.</p>

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<p>HGFM, I don’t want to sound harsh but do you WANT to be a poor kid from Compton? I bet the “poor” kids would trade places with you in a second.</p>

<p>Sometimes you’ve got to stand back and see that just being nominated for all these awards can be an accomplishment in itself. I know it’s frustrating - think of the awkward smiles on the faces of the Academy Award winners when the envelope is opened and the winner is… “Not You!” But it IS an honor to be nominated for all the awards you listed. And if you give up on trying and applying, it won’t ever be you that wins. But if you keep trying, one day it might be. </p>

<p>My son was also in the top 5% of his class. His school gave out literally over a hundred awards. He got one. Other kids got a half-dozen or more. But, like you, he got into a school that he loved, and he’s lucky enough to have parents who can afford it. In the bigger scheme of things, he’s happy and his hard work paid off. You are excited about your college, don’t let getting an award - or not getting one - mar your happiness.</p>

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<p>Lafalum84-please do not misunderstand me. I’m VERY grateful for what I have. It’s just frustrating to hear over and over that you were good, but not quite good enough. </p>

<p>I appreciate the perspective though, and from you also, Northstarmom. :slight_smile: I’m going to turn in the resume…I’m just finishing up my cover letter now. :slight_smile: Keep your fingers crossed! (I have to wait until June 12, at graduation, to find out…GAH.)</p>

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<p>“HGFM, I don’t want to sound harsh but do you WANT to be a poor kid from Compton? I bet the “poor” kids would trade places with you in a second.”</p>

<p>True. And I bet a lot of kids who aren’t poor, but would love to be noticed and nominated for any award, would also trade places with HGFM.</p>

<p>In my house, we made a point of celebrating our kids’ being nominated for or applying for anything. Regardless of whether they won, we had a celebration. When our kids didn’t win, we also congratulated the ones who did win.</p>

<p>Last week, younger S tried out for the improv group at his college. Since the audition results were yesterday, and I haven’t heard from him, I guess he didn’t make it. I am so very proud of him, however, for having the guts to try out. He’s still a bit shy, and knew he would be up against some excellent actors with lots more experience than he has. I’m glad that he had the courage to shoot for the stars even if he hit the moon. :)</p>

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<p>So sorry danceangel. As a parent I know you are hurting and I don’t blame you.</p>

<p>I’d want to know how many RA’s they chose, what semester they were in, and how many applicants they had. I would NOT go chalking it up to an unknown questionable deficit in your daughters interviewing abilities.</p>

<p>Why does it have to be her “fault?” Blecchhh! Don’t do this to you or her. </p>

<p>If she wants to she can always ask how she can improve her chances for next year. She can also state that she is willing to be on a waitlist if anyone decides to cancel out. She can be proactive if she wants to be but it’s not necessary. Sounds like her self esteem is intact as she keeps competing for positions she finds interesting. Good for her.</p>

<p>I would echo what others have said though. It is always a great idea to use the college counseling/job services for sharpening up skills for interviews etc. You might suggest this at another time and let her know that most kids do mock interviews etc. when it comes time for this. It does not need to be linked to not being chosen today or in the past though</p>

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<p>"Why does it have to be her “fault?” Blecchhh! Don’t do this to you or her. "</p>

<p>The reason some of us are speculating this is that the mother says that the D has always been overlooked for opportunities, yet is a very nice girl with good values.</p>

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<p>Danceangel. So sorry that your d didn’t get picked. Speaking from experience, I don’t think it helps to try to help her understand all the reasons why - at least not right now.<br>
When I was in college, I had my heart set on on summer orientation leader job. After doing REALLY well in a series of tough group interviews, I had an individual interview and the woman and I just didn’t hit it off. I was heartbroken when I didn’t get the job - but I felt better when I told myself that that there were some things I just couldn’t do anything about. The chemistry with that particular interviewer was just bad. I wasn’t ready to go through mock interviews to improve my skills …not right then.
Walking on campus about a week later, I saw one of the student leaders who led one of the group interviews. He ran over to greet me with a big smile and asked me when I was starting. “But you did so well…” Yuk.
Well, about a year later, after I graduated, a family member hooked me up with someone who put me through a grueling mock interview. Ripped me to shreds afterwards. I kept it together but I cried when I left his office. Awful. But I have to say it was probably one the best things I ever did for my career. I’m a PRO at interviewing now -really. That mock interview made a difference in my career, but I not sure I would have recovered from it if it happened right after my rejection!
So Danceangel…give her some time to heal on this one. Don’t over-analyze right now. It’s wonderful that she had the courage to try and she WILL grow from this (and her other rejections too). It just may take some time.</p>

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<p>Danceangel–so sorry to hear she didn’t get it. One of the things she may want to do is engage with her college’s career planning center and do some skills/interest inventories. It could be that she is going after things that she’s in her heart of hearts not really interested in but that she feels she “should” do. There are a bunch of paths to acceptance and success. Something like 70% of the population is extroverted; if your daughter is not and if she grew up in an extroverted family she may reach for things like RA without really understanding that it would suck to have to be in that role. Yet introverts are amazingly effective and successful if they have the insight to follow their hearts and not get bogged down filling somebody else’s vision of what success should be.</p>

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<p>I haven’t read the entire thread, so I hope this is still timely.</p>

<p>I’ll just put it out there: I don’t think your daughter knows how to present herself. </p>

<p>I was one of those kids also, and it wasn’t that I lacked merit, it was that I didn’t know a bunch of really important soft skills (that I am still learning), such as putting things delicately, networking, determining what the committee is really looking for, etc. </p>

<p>I think she needs to do a few things:</p>

<p>1) Find someone (preferably several someones) who get things they apply for, and make friends. Then, find out how they do it. Often, people have a methodology that goes something like this: </p>

<ul>
<li>Talk to people who have done the thing before and make friends—they are often on the deciding committee</li>
<li>Talk to the people on the committee tand ask how they decide</li>
<li>Ask someone affiliated with it to “review your draft” of the application form</li>
<li>Follow-up to ensure that all materials have been received</li>
</ul>

<ol>
<li><p>Practice following these steps (or whatever the people tell her) and see if they work. At least she can feel like she is trying and improving instead of just getting slammed all the time.</p></li>
<li><p>Read up on the backgrounds of people who have gotten something and see if she has similar experiences and can bring them to bear on her application.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I hope this helps!</p>

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<p>I have a similar doesn’t-get-picked kid and her 4th grade teacher made the diagnosis many years ago - my D lacks confidence. No reason she should - she is bright, grounded, attractive, athletic, with good friends. But she is unwilling to toot her own horn, and this is communicated in interactions (especially superficial ones) with her evaluators. It is a characteristic that endears her to her friends- she is the steady Eddie escort to the drama queens.</p>

<p>But the fact of the matter is that confidence can correlate with success, and is an attribute that is (reasonably) valued when choosing job/school/award/etc applicants. Its clear she will have to find a niche in which her accomplishments will ultimately outweigh any perceptions regarding her insecurity. It is true that ultimately resilience is an asset - in my field the ones who succeed are often those who, when knocked down, get up and say “hit me again”. But it is painful, both to experience and to watch. And sometimes being underestimated is good thing. But not for ever.</p>

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<p>Hugs to the OP, her daughter and all the other students going through the same thing. IMO selling yourself is key in the interviews. Mock interviews sound like a good idea. However, a few key ideas to keep in mind in any interview: If the interviewer is talking more than you are, this is not good. How will someone remember YOU, if he or she did the talking? Although people tell you to ask questions in an interview, this may set you up for the situation where the other person does most of the talking. Start with why you are good for the position, and end with that. Try to connect with the interviewer, but not in a way that has him/her doing all the talking. For example, you see the photo of a family on the desk, and you can say something like I love dogs (dresses, mountains, beaches, etc, get the point)like the one in your photo…it reminds me of the time that I… As I said, these are a few short tips. Additionally, as much as no one likes to hear it, make sure to DRESS appropriately. My husband and I were both poor(read nearly destitute) students, and have similar stories of the bad clothing that we had for interviews after grad school. Yes we got jobs, good ones, but a better suit (or whatever) would have helped. Don’t forget a decent pair of shoes (even if you have to save them just for the interviews.) </p>

<p>As a mom, I think that a lot of the kids chosen for a lot of things in school are those who toot (really BLAST) their own horn. If you are the kind of kid who is not comfortable with this, practice, practice, practice. I know that one of the twentieth century icons, Jackie O, gave that cool, pearls, shades on, soft spoken air, but that is a one of a kind. The rest of us mortals have to remember that we need to stand out to be picked for whatever, and not just on paper. </p>

<p>A couple of more bits of advice: don’t give up, most likely you WILL succeed eventually; Also, in my own life, finding the right place is also a big leg up on being chosen. What do I mean by that? In college had many of the same not chosen experiences. In grad school, I was chosen for alot of things (but certainly not all of them.) I think the difference was the small pond versus big one. I also belonged to a youth organization in high school that was affirming, and gave lots of awards. Although I know some girls may have felt overlooked in that group, but for me it was positive. However, in retrospect, my mom was involved in that group, with my sister, not me. However, she was friends with the other women who picked the awards… (the old who you know i guess.) However, something about her participation in that group (my mom’s) is something to think about. She did it to help my sister who was shy. She made friends who were not the type that she ordinarily would have picked (mom that is), and she had fun herself. Later in life, as a widow, this same resilience helped my mom in her retirement community where she was president of her ladies group. Believe me, she was not the type who was miss popularity or anything, but she was earnest, and at that point very sincere about wanting the friends.</p>

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<p>

I was an RA for two years in grad school. At the end of the first year, I saw how some of the RA’s for the second year were chosen. The selection had a lot to do with how active the candidates were in dorm life - had they come to the little mixers and mixed? did they attend their floor’s meetings and had they frosted pumpkin-shaped cookies with orange frosting at Halloween (it was a women’s dorm)? because the next year they would be organizing the little mixers and making sure everyone mixed. A bad interview would have hurt you, but a good interview with the director was something that was weighed in with the staff’s thoughts about whether the candidate seemed a good fit for the job - including the yoga demonstrations, guest speaker programs, etc. This helped them get people who genuinely enjoyed the goofy dorm group activities, ice-breakers, etc., that they’d be organizing the next year.</p>

<p>Danceangel, if your daughter was passed over for people who were more well known to the interviewers (because they had lived on the floors where the interviewers lived and been able to do activities observed by the interviewers during the course of the scool year), it may very well be that she had a great interview and couldn’t have improved it - it might be that the people making the choices just picked people they knew better.</p>

<p>(I had wanted to be an RA because the free room and board helped A LOT for a broke grad student. It was fun and the responsibilities were manageable; when things were bad, though, I felt like there was a lot of weight on my shoulders - I remember one young woman in the ER from too much tequila and another with bulimia, I remember a number of broken hearts - I felt so responsible for the residents on my floor. I had expected the job to be easier. An RA job was a lot harder than being a camp counselor.)</p>