Sure, automatically blame the college kids

Parent Cafe
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<p>[Blaming</a> BC students? Not so fast - The Boston Globe](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/06/25/blaming_bc_students_not_so_fast/]Blaming”>http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/06/25/blaming_bc_students_not_so_fast/)</p>

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<p>Of course the MBTA never held a press conference to apologize to the college student, who was acting as a designated driver, once they found out the accident was apparently the fault of their speeding trolley driver.</p>

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<p>Despite the other issues, it appears, from the details mentioned in the article, that the driver of the SUV was still at fault for the accident. She was making a u-turn and crossed the tracks in front of the trolley, and was apparently convicted for that traffic offense, in addition to the open liquor in the vehicle and being stupid enough to be driving with 7 passengers in the vehicle.</p>

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<p>She was held responsible. I would guess that she could have fought this but if you
had been facing criminal charges and they were all dismissed, that you’d be happy
to just settle for small fines.</p>

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<p>The other students testified that the train came out of nowhere so they didn’t see
the train. The train was going over three times the speed limit and this was at
night. I’ve crossed those tracks hundreds if not thousands of times (I grew up in
Newton) and those speed limits are there for a reason. There are plenty of hills
and curves with obstructed views of both T drivers and passenger cars.</p>

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<p>Do you have a perfect driving record?</p>

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<p>Neither criminal nor traffic charges are solely determinative as to how the liability will be assigned. My bet is that her insurance company paid for the repairs to the trolley car, depending on the insurance laws in MA and whether or not there is any kind of liability agreement in existence there. Someone involved with a vehicle such as a trolley car is almost always 100% liable for any type of collision, unless the trolley leaves the track or is ignoring a signal. Speed, in and of itself, is in no way going to obviate the liability of someone making a U-turn across trolley tracks. There may be some allowance or agreement in the negotiations where a portion of the liability may be assigned to the trolley but it is likely a small percentage.</p>

<p>I worked through grad school in the claims department of an insurance company and I can’t tell you how many times I heard the other vehicle was going so fast it came out of nowhere story. I’ve yet to see a case of a vehicle going to fast that it can’t be seen. In most cases, it matters little. The person who is making the turn, changing direction, passing, U-turning, still has the responsibility to do so safely. If the area has twists and turns as you suggest, then it is up to the driver to be even more careful. </p>

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<p>As a matter of fact, I do, although I don’t think it’s necessary to have a perfect driving record to recognize the stupidity of carrying more passengers than there are seatbelts in a vehicle.</p>

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<p>MA is a no-fault state. MBTA cars cost in the millions of dollars so
any assignment could blow through covered maximums.</p>

<p>“Train companies, commuter rail authorities, maintenance companies,
design and engineering firms, construction firms, and others may be
responsible for accidents arising from train, subway or trolley
collisions or other train accidents. Usually train operations include
large insurance policies or self-insured companies or authorities
which are capable of fully compensating train accident victims.”</p>

<p>– Random legal site</p>

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<p>Source please.</p>

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<p>Have you taken physics?</p>

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<p>You can exercise all the caution that you want to but if you have a
blind curve or hill, all the care in the world won’t protect you
against someone driving too fast.</p>

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<p>If you haven’t been to Boston/Newton and been around these trolley tracks, you probably can’t picture how this accident happened. It’s actually shocking that this doesn’t happen more often. The tracks are in the middle of the street, and the streets themselves are anywhere from 2 to 6 lanes wide. Boston has notoriously bad traffic patterns, and the areas where there are trolley tracks are no exception. I’ve only driven thru there a couple times, but I was completely intimidated and confused every time. </p>

<p>Yes, the driver had too many kids in her car and they were probably being rowdy. But a trolley has a “professional” driver, and he shouldn’t be going 3 TIMES the legal speed limit. And the assumption that the SUV driver was drunk was false as well. She was 100% sober and wasn’t talking on a cell phone or texting. If you read the whole article, BC will be punishing the kids who were drinking underage in the car. What really bothered me was the MBTA’s initial press conferences in which they completely pilloried the college student SUV driver and put the whole blame on her, demanding restitution and punishment, before they bothered to even complete their investigation. And when they found out their assumptions were WRONG, did they make any effort to apologize or clear this girl’s name? Nope.</p>

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<p>In the section along Boston University, the traffic controls keep cars and trolleys off the track at the same time. The only time where you have a problem is when the outlet gets clogged up and you wind up with cars sitting on the tracks. This most often happens with a U-turn and the safe thing to do is to just drive straight because going straight onto the side road usually isn’t blocked.</p>

<p>I’ve driven up and down Commonwealth Avenue thousands of times and have never had any kind of incident with a subway car, nor come close to on. I’m pretty sure that the traffic controls keep accidents from happening as accidents are quite uncommon on the B line. Perhaps the trolley driver ran a red light.</p>

<p>I’ll have to get the intersection from the old article and go down and take a look at the intersection.</p>

<p>I think that Lafalum84 is describing the C line which may not have the traffic controls that the B line has.</p>

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<p>I just reviewed a few articles. I know the intersection very, very well. It’s westbound just before the Boston College stop. In general, the train tracks are between the eastbound and westbound lanes. Just before the Boston College stop, the train tracks cross the westbound lanes to go into the train station which is to the right of the westbound lane.</p>

<p>This is why the speed limit drops to 10 MPH. Can you imagine a trolley car driving sharply diagonally across two lanes of traffic right in front of cars traveling at 30 MPH? I thought that the trolley had to stop at that intersection anyways as it would have a red light most of the time. There is vehicle traffic coming from the south, from the west turning north into the intersection and westbound traffic turning south into the intersection and westbound traffic driving straight onto the tracks. I’ve been on the trolley going to the BC station many times too and my recollection is that the trolley always stopped before the intersection. That may just be the way the lights are timed as the trolley is competing with three lanes of traffic and may get a fairly low priority to proceed.</p>

<p>I pulled up the intersection on Google Maps and the tracks curve northward before the intersection so the driver can’t see the intersections from six to seven segments of track away. BTW, there is quite a bit of pedestrian traffic at that intersection too.</p>

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<p>If it’s a no-fault state with regard to property damage, then clearly each insurer may have covered their own damages. The term no-fault refers to how claims are settled, not that no one is responsible for a crash. The cost of public transit vehicles doesn’t really enter into the equation in any substantive way. Otherwise, what would happen in jurisdictions that do not have no-fault rules? Clearly, insurers of the at-fault parties are responsible to pay for repairs. The chances of a public transit vehicle being a total loss in a crash with a car are slim.</p>

<p>Without context, I’m not sure what point your quoted statement is trying to make. Clearly, those types of groups/companies will need to be insured, either through insurance companies or self-insurance means, for instances where they are liable for a crash/claim and have to pay a claimant. My source is six years of working as an adjuster/supervisor handling thousands of auto claims. As I stated, there is sometimes an apportioning of responsibility due to the speed of one party but it is generally small. </p>

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<p>The responsibility is still yours to ensure that you can do so safely. If you aren’t sure that you can, then you shouldn’t be making a U-turn on a blind curve or a hill.</p>

<p>lafalum, I’m familiar with the Boston area, having lived in Wellesley for a year, and still visit a couple of times a year. Although I’m not sure I know this particular spot, I’m aware of how the trolleys work. I agree that it can be confusing and that makes it even more imperative that drivers exhibit extra care. The initial response to the accident via the press conference sounds like it was wrong and that nothing should have been said until the investigation was completed. I’m not sure why MBTA officials should have even held a press conference, it sounds like that was a misguided decision and probably not one that would have been advised had they asked their legal department. What they did was wrong, but it really has no effect on the details of the actual crash, which presumably was investigated not only by transit officials but by the police, who presumably didn’t find any evidence of the trolley driver disobeying a signal, which would obviously be a different kettle of fish. Bottom line is that it’s fortunate that there weren’t more serious injuries. SUVs and trolley cars can be repaired.</p>

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The MBTA is under enormous public scrutiny right now after a serious of high-profile incidents involving their drivers, including one where the trolley driver was texting while operating, blew through a signal, and as a result wound up rear-ending another train, causing significant injury and damage. They have disciplined/fired other operators for similar cell phone issues.</p>

<p>To anyone familiar with this nearly-bankrupt, poorly-run, patronage-laden, union controlled piece of ***** government organization, it is comes as no surprise that they would throw anyone/everyone under the train in order to deflect blame from themselves. And as the article pointed out, who better than a bunch of (alleged) drunk, partying college students?</p>

<p>The girl should sue the MBTA for defamation.</p>

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<p>I love the MBTA since it makes it 100x easier for me to get into Boston but I haven’t heard about it and I think this situation is outrageous. Thank god I haven’t had to take the green line with all these accidents. Maybe they should put more frequent trains on the orange line though since I hate waiting :)</p>

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<p>Insurers are only required to pay up to their liability limit. These
typically run about $300K to $500K, right?</p>

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<p>You really need to know the intersection.</p>

<p>BTW, it doesn’t matter whether you’re making a U-Turn or a left-turn
here. I’ve made the U-turn and the left-turn hundreds of times. If
you have the light, then the train is blocked by a red light. Turns
are safe at that intersection because the signals ensure it. The
train tracks continue right onto the road after the intersection.
It wouldn’t even matter if you were going straight as you would drive
right into the train or the train would drive into you.</p>

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<p>The driver is a know liar and is being charged with perjury. I did not
find anything in the news to indicate that this is the case with the
driver or the other occupants of the car.</p>

<p>I’d suggest going to the intersection and looking at the traffic
signals change. It is a very safe intersection if the traffic signals
are observed.</p>

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<p>The other recent accident was in Newton near the Woodlands station (I grew up a third of a mile away from there) where the train operator died.</p>

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<p>I’m not really outraged by the accident - it happened, and luckily no one was seriously injured. Obviously driving a car with 7 rowdy students in it in a crowded area in Boston may not be the best idea ever. </p>

<p>What I’m outraged by was the MBTA’s very public rush to judgement. Obviously, a college kid with a car full of hockey players that just won a national championship… driver must have been drunk, end of story. Except that it wasn’t the end of the story. And to publicly blame the driver and state that, “These students should be held accountable for their reckless and dangerous behavior,’’ when the investigation had barely begun was ridiculous. This was a rush to judgement and an attempt to deflect criticism away from the third serious accident on the T in the past year or so (not to mention a commuter rail collision at Back Bay Station a few years ago). </p>

<p>My husband used to commute on the T every day. When we go into Boston, I much prefer to take the T rather than drive. I am a big supporter of public transportation. But don’t hang a college kid out to dry because she’s the <em>obvious</em> cause of an accident when it was the MBTA who hired someone with a very poor driving record to run their trolley and he was going 25 mph OVER the speed limit!</p>

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<p>^Lafalum84, a lot of people like to blame the young people in our society when in reality we all make mistakes, we all screw up etc…It’s just something that we do. One day, I’m probably gonna be a parent and telling people how messed up the next generation is.</p>

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<p>The newspaper also reported that Massachusetts Bay Transportation
Authority officials were pursuing perjury charges against Edwin
Dieujuste, the operator, for testimony he gave in a hearing about the
crash.</p>

<p>Now, the Globe reported, investigators say the operator was driving 35
mph at the time of the crash. The speed limit at the scene for
trolleys is 10 mph.</p>

<p>[Follow-Up:</a> Trolley Operator in BC Crash Suspended :: USCHO.com :: U.S. College Hockey Online](<a href=“http://www.uscho.com/news/college-hockey/id,18677/FollowUpTrolleyOperatorinBCCrashSuspended.html]Follow-Up:”>http://www.uscho.com/news/college-hockey/id,18677/FollowUpTrolleyOperatorinBCCrashSuspended.html)</p>

<p>Meantime, Davey, of the MBTA, defended Dieujuste’s hiring yesterday,
even though the operator had three separate charges of violating
traffic signals in Florida, as well as a speeding violation, since
2003.</p>

<p>[Blaming</a> BC students? Not so fast - The Boston Globe](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/06/25/blaming_bc_students_not_so_fast/?page=2]Blaming”>http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/06/25/blaming_bc_students_not_so_fast/?page=2)</p>

<p>The trolley driver has a history of violating traffic signals and
speeding. He has lied to authorities investigating this case. He
claimed that the SUV turned right in front of him.</p>

<p>I’ve seen no criminal records presented against the BC driver and I’m
sure that they would have been presented if there were any. There is
no indication that she lied to investigators. Why are you going to
believe here?</p>

<p>To the poster that said that speed really didn’t matter: that’s probably
because so few people have taken physics. In first-year mechanics, you
do a ton of distance/rate/time problems the cars, trains, trucks, boats,
etc. You have have them going around curves, etc. Most people’s eyes
bug out when they see these kinds of problems. Engineers probably think
about numbers and equations when they see these things in play. I doubt
that the lawyers or the judge were thinking in this way. Everyone on
the BC driver’s team were probably happy with the result. Are you going
to spend $35 on a fine or a thousand bucks on a traffic engineer as an
expert witness?</p>

<p>The trolley driver was going three and a half times the speed limit. To
put this in perspective, it would be like driving 190 MPH on the highway
or 105 MPH in a residential zone.</p>

<p>If speed didn’t matter, then why do we have speed limits? Physics.</p>