<p>I agree with the comment above that Syracuse and nearby colleges are hurt by the weather. Moreover, we are seeing more extremes in weather (global climate change???). </p>
<p>I did not encourage my son to apply to any colleges in the snowbelt, because I thought it would be depressing. It is one thing to be affected by dreary weather in February, but is another when spring doesn’t come until May. </p>
<p>Syracuse has the most average snowfall of any metropolitan area in the northeast.</p>
<p>Parents of B students (oh the horror!) with financial need might now consider SU an attractive option for their kid whereas before they were SOL and the only financial options are state schools. High stat kids have a lot more options available to them.</p>
<p>Taxguy…your cause is noble…increase the Syracuse ranking…unfortunately I fear that you are trying to push a really heavy boulder up a really big hill. You might be able to overcome it but it is more likely that you will not.</p>
<p>I think Syracuse faces a whole host of challenges that will relegate it to at a minmum its current level and a probable further slide in the rankings…</p>
<p>No medical school. Medical schools often drive the research bus. If you don’t have a medical school then you better have a location that facilitates research funding. As an example, Iowa State has no medical school but does $225,000,000 in research yearly. Syracuse does about $45,000,000. Why? Location. Syracuse would need an influx of billions of dollars (probably in the range of 5 billion) for faculty, facilities, and resources just to reach the level of an Iowa State. This will not happen. </p>
<p>Its has an odd place in the academic landscape that is tough to compete in. It is neither a research school nor a small university (along the lines of a Lehigh). It can’t compete with Northwestern, BC, Miami etc for those top students that want a private school but with a smaller undergrad population. Syracuse has about 14,000 undergrads, the others around 9,000 and they all look and feel more ‘intimate’.</p>
<p>Geography. Many southern and western schools lower in the rankings today will pass Syracuse as population, good students, and money continues to move south and west. Georgia, Clemson, Alabama, and Auburn will all eventually pass Syracuse in the rankings.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Syracuse University, SUNY ESF, Upstate Medical all face student enrollment increase
Published: Monday, October 03, 2011, 6:33 AM </p>
<p>[Syracuse</a> University, SUNY ESF, Upstate Medical all face student enrollment increase | syracuse.com](<a href=“http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/10/syracuse_university_suny_esf_u.html]Syracuse”>Syracuse University, SUNY ESF, Upstate Medical all face student enrollment increase - syracuse.com)</p>
<p>Taxguy/Jonri- sorry to jump in late but you’re confusing correlation with causation. Law schools put so much emphasis on the LSAT score because they believe (and I’m assuming they’ve got reams of data to prove it) that high LSAT scores correlate with strong law school performance. THAT’s why the law school rankings are so heavily dependent on LSAT scores-- not that the scores are in and of themselves meaningful, and that the law deans are all ranking whoresl-- but that by any measure of “quality output”, i.e. bar passing rates, employment and salary, track record getting graduates into clerkships, etc LSAT’s are predictive.</p>
<p>It would be nice if high undergrad GPA was predictive of strong law school performance- but there are loads of third tier law schools filled with high GPA students who have trouble passing the bar.</p>
<p>Of course we can argue that Harvard and Chicago have high bar passage rates for other reasons besides LSAT scores- but I think it’s naive to separate the law school rankings from any real world “performance metrics” vis a vis the graduates.</p>
<p>I have no axe to grind on Syracuse- but back in the dark ages (1970’s) when I was applying to college, Syracuse was where the B students with affluent parents got to apply. In my little corner of New England with a reasonably diverse and huge public HS, Rutgers, Binghamton, U Mass, were all seen as stronger academically and much cheaper for out of state students.</p>
<p>I know many Syracuse grads of all ages- they all seem to have done well for themselves over the years-- but I don’t think any guidance counselor then or now looks at a student seeking a high level of intellectual engagement and says “oh, you’ll find your peeps at Syracuse”. It can go up 10 notches in the rankings- I don’t think that’s going to change.</p>
<p>Haystack, I see an increasing number of kids who want to go to school in urban areas.</p>
<p>So do I in my college town. None are named Syracuse, NY. Chicago…yes. Saint Louis…yes. Dallas…yes. Boston…yes. DC…yes. Miami…yes. Phoenix…yes.
Syracuse…not so much.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree with both statements. Syracuse will still have their niche. It will just be a changed niche. If they weren’t attracting top students anyway, it’s better that they adjust to meet the niche they do well with. It will likely mean a drop in rankings as they lose top “non-need” students (one supposes they had top “need” students who also qualified for merit aid before). Profs can only teach to the level of their students. If the level drops, so will the content. That’s life. They can choose that option if they wish (along with other schools) just as they could choose to drop athletic scholarships and see their athletic program drop too.</p>
<p>We need all types of schools from community colleges to lower tier to “B” level to top level, etc, (and there could be different labels on each).</p>
<p>blossom, I love your discussion distinguishing between causation and corelation. Sadly, even under the LSAC’s own numbers,which I don’t trust at all, the corelation between the LSAT and law school performace is between .09 to .51 with an average of .3 if I remember correctly. A 1.0 would be a perfect corelation. Thus, their are more outlyers than those that fell within the prediction.</p>
<p>As for bar results, there are PLENTY of school with lower LSATs that have high bar passage rates such as Nova Southeastern and others. I think even Florida Coastal has a fairly high bar passage rate.</p>
<p>The problem is that law school deans are , in your words, " ranking whores." As long as the LSAT is a high factor in the rankings, the law schools will do anything to raise the median scores. Heck as many as 15 schools are being sued for false data concerning jobs. Sadly, many admission officers will do anything to get more applicants.</p>
<p>Also , everyone seems to be focusing on location. Yes, Syracuse is in a bad location but so is RIT and Univeristy of Rochester, Geneseo, USC, Cincinnati, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and many others who have done well and have attracted some top faculty.</p>
<p>You can’t compare Syracuse to Rochester. Rochester is a major research university ($400,000,000 per year). Syracuse is not ($45,000,000 per year).
Cincinnati has a research level of $350,000,000 per year.</p>
<p>Syracuse still gets good if not great faculty and is doing just fine. Don’t try to make them something they are not…a research university.</p>
<p>RIT is better comparison from a research perspective. They are in the regional ratings category.</p>
<p>USC is a bad location? Maybe a bad neighborhood, but not a bad location.</p>
<p>“So do I in my college town. None are named Syracuse, NY. Chicago…yes. Saint Louis…yes. Dallas…yes. Boston…yes. DC…yes. Miami…yes. Phoenix…yes.
Syracuse…not so much.”</p>
<p>That must be why SU’s total enrollment is only 20K. <em>rolling eyes</em> </p>
<p>It’s a very big draw for B students, kids who want a big football/basketball school, kids who want a big greek life, kids who like to ski (yes, there are several ski areas in Central NY,) kids who want to stay in NY but don’t want to go to a SUNY school, kids who want to major in communications, architecture, political science, kids who have no idea what they want to major in and want a lot of options, etc., etc., etc.</p>
<p>Bar passage rates don’t necessarily correlate to the quality of the a school. The top law schools should have high passage rates because of the quality of their students. Below that, there are going to be wider variations. Local lower rated schools can teach to the bar exam and raise their passage rates. A 3-year bar review course is not necessarily what you’re looking for.</p>
<p>Separately, it’s perfectly fine if the Syracuse administration and stakeholders determine that their mission is something other than maximizing USNews rankings. Who knows - maybe increasing diversity and improving the Syracuse community and economy will benefit them in the rankings long-term.</p>
<p>Kudos to SU for doing what they deem is good for their community, rather than playing the ranking game!</p>
<p>Syracuse is on a path to run out of money, not intelligent students. I do agree that the academic quality of the school has been a little slow at keeping up with it’s peers.</p>
<p>Newhouse is nice, but I think the main reason that Syracuse’s US News ranking (which I don’t think means much) is dropping is because departments which are traditionally important to research universities, aren’t that strong at SU. I do think this issue is being addressed and has seen tangible improvements such as the building of the new life sciences building, although this may be too little too late. Some “important” departments such as engineering and information technology are pretty good but IMO seemed to be considered second behind Newhouse and Whitman. Either way, without extremely strong science, math, law, economics, and business programs, then many people won’t consider Syracuse a top tier school. To my knowledge, the only top tier programs at Syracuse are in Newhouse, Public Affairs, in the iSchool, and Entrepreneurship. There may be another program or two that is pretty good that I don’t know about, but to be honest, most of it is average or below average.</p>
<p>The school needs to realize that although diversity is good, no matter how intelligent these diverse students are, diverse students are more likely to be poor, which means that the cost of financial aid to the school will be proportionally higher compared to it’s peers. This can only be sustainable with a large endowment, supported by a large number of alumni. I paid for a small fraction of my tuition, room and board, and plan on giving back to SU in the future.</p>
<p>Choosing to move out of the Big East into the ACC was an obvious play to increase applications which will lead to more selectivity. Traditionally, football attracts more applications than basketball. Also, Syracuse and Pittsburgh moving to the ACC will expand our reputation into the south, most notably, North Carolina. Charlotte and Raleigh have a booming job market, but Syracuse’s reputation doesn’t go much further south than DC.</p>
<p>Having spent the last 4 years at the school, among the students, I feel as if the atmosphere is one that feels as if certain programs lack quality, while others receive lots of attention. I feel as if students dislike the large class sizes, and many are disappointed with the quality of the professors. Personally, I think that some of the professors in the econ department are a joke. The econ club is a joke and lacks proper support from the faculty, although it did start up last year due to student initiative. On top of this, it was entirely too difficult to get the proper econ classes that I needed, and there are a couple that I wanted to take that I never had the chance to. I’ve had 2 new professors (in the econ dept.) who lacked proper experience. ECN 310 social issues is a joke and should not count towards upper-level econ credits. ECN 365 and 481 are excellent and should be mandatory for econ majors. Maxwell and A&S desperately need to be separated. Then the econ dept will flourish, and the the A&S school will be able to focus on improving it’s own programs.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that the quality of the academic programs at Syracuse University are starting to lag behind it’s peers no matter how you look at it. We need more students, housing, and alumni to support the higher “cost” of diverse students. SU simply doesn’t have the amount of successful alumni backing it that is needed to support so much financial aid to students and aid to the city.</p>
<p>Syracuse University
Economics, Class of 2011</p>
<p>MTTFrog13, Frankly, you hit the nail on the head better than I did. Yes, if Syracuse had a HUGE endowment they could accomplish their laudable goals. However, they don’t, and as a result, academic quality had to suffer. I saw this 5 years ago and am astounded that Syracuse still doesn’t get it since they renewed Ms. Cantor’s contract.</p>
<p>I actually suggested all this to an admission rep several years ago. Her response at the time was, "You may be right ( about the potential decline in rankings and academic quality),but there is nothing we can do about it since their current policies are strongly supported by the administration. "</p>
<p>I do not believe that Syracuse’s downward spiral is a result of not having a medical school or being in a bad location. Everything is relative. For example, their location also provides very low cost of living for faculty. </p>
<p>One big problem with Syracuse that someone noted above is that they are not a nationally known school for research nor are they a liberal arts college that emphasizes quality teaching. In fact, there were a number of complaints about professors who don’t speak english well or who can’t teach. Syracuse really needs an identity and a specific “selling proposition” as to why people should go there.</p>
<p>If they don’t want to become or can’t become a nationally known research university, they should focus on teaching quality, which is akin to a liberal arts college. There is no reason to have faculty that can’t speak english well or whose rankings by students is abysmal.</p>
<p>I still think that with the right financial policies, a strong push for a lot bigger endowment,which should be used for endowing chairs and attracting more merit based kids and NOT for need based scholarships, improving facilities, greater attraction of well known faculty who can also teach or do research well, and with some good marketing, Syracuse could not only stop the ranking decline but actually substantially increase their rankings. It just takes a visionary chancellor who has more “horse sense” than Ms. Cantor. The board of directors need to understand this.</p>
<p>taxguy,</p>
<p>Some of the professors I had while at Syracuse were an embarrassment. Not only were many of these professors new to the United States, and lacked the communication skills needed, but they were lacking teaching skills period. Some were so easy and laid back they would’ve been better off teaching high school. This isn’t representative of the whole group. Some professors were excellent. Also, class sizes are getting larger, and it’s getting more difficult to get into the classes that you want to. I don’t have anything to compare this to, but I’m sure that some students at other schools don’t like some of their professors.</p>
<p>Syracuse’s attraction to parents right now is a relatively cheap private education for your minority A or B student. I’m a minority, poor, and I had better than a b average so not only did they give me a ton of financial aid (relatively), but I got an academic scholarship. I think this is a good initiative, but giving free tuition to Syracuse high school grads goes too far and is a bit unfair in my opinion, to the students coming from all over the country or even Buffalo and have to actually pay for their education.</p>
<p>Going back to diversity, I kind of didn’t want to bring this up, but we’re on the topic of diversity anyway. Despite the diverse proportion of students, Syracuse is very very SEGREGATED. Syracuse reminds me of lunch time in high school where all the black kids sit together, all the white kids sit together, and all the hispanics and asians sit with their groups. I don’t think this is caused by the school as much as it is just a problem in society, but I think this is worth mentioning. Ask any student at Syracuse and they will agree with me, guaranteed. Personally, I’m black, and my roommates my two best friends from school are white and asian, and people would constantly mention that we were an unusually “diverse” group or household when we lived together. The segregation is probably more social class segregation rather than race. The blacks were poor, the hispanics were relatively poor and spoke spanish, the asians were relatively wealthy and spoke chinese and so on. Why is this important? If Syracuse is being so diverse in order to bring something educational and worldly out of it, then what is the point if the different races are actually integrating and learning from each other? This conversation could go on and on, but I just wanted to give another example of one of the problems the school is facing and factors the school consider in it’s effort to become so diverse.</p>
<p>I turned up the better and free (with in-state) econ program at UMD College Park to go to Syracuse and pay student loans in part. I wasn’t 100% sure what program I wanted to do at that point, and Syracuse in general, and being private, seemed attractive. I’ve become doubtful of my decision, but I don’t regret it at all. I am satisfied with my decision based on my overall experience at Syracuse. The Syracuse name does, for the moment, still carry a bit of clout behind it, which is what I primarily was hoping for. Also, the college experience and worldly people I met were amazing.</p>
<p>I love what my school is doing, but in the words of a great man, “This is not sustainable”. Hopefully the school is just in a transitional phase, and Cantor does actually have a plan. Maybe the “image” of Syracuse U. is to become a school for undergraduates, not based on “traditional” research. Rather than doing research, Cantor is promoting Scholarship in Action. It’s no coincidence, that SU, through it’s initiative to help the city of Syracuse, has attained the number one ranking in public affairs. This is a real result of scholarship in action. The money issue will need to be solved before Cantor can continue in this direction. Dropping out of the AAU and falling in rankings will not help to attract the wealthy students who can actually afford to pay the full tuition, offsetting the financial aid. If anything, I feel like Syracuse is going to start accepting dumb rich kids, who were rejected from the private Ivy Leagues, or NYU, and are looking to go to a private school.</p>
<p>Mttfrog13, funny that you mentioned the diversity and lack of mingling among various ethnic groups. Five years ago, Syracuse was rated among the worst for ethnic mingling. Yes, they had a lot of emphasis on diversity but didn’t accomplish much from that diversity due to exactly the problem that you mentioned. This was true 5 years ago and I am sad to hear it is still the case. </p>
<p>Also,being a school that tries to give minorities a cheaper education is very laudable. However, it isn’t going to work for long with Syracuse’s endowment,which is why they dropped in rankings while raising over 1 billion over the last 10 years.</p>
<p>Hey All, I came upon this article today and have received a bit of confidence about this.</p>
<p>I am applying Early Decision to the Newhouse school. I am a B+ average student that has taken 2 AP’s and 5 honors courses… I also have a lot of journalism experience ( view my other posts if interested).</p>
<p>It’s no secret that I can’t afford the current tuition of $53,000 dollars. One of my parents has recently lost their job, which makes it even more difficult. Since I wouldn’t be eligible for merit aid because my academic stats aren’t the highest, this has given be a vote of confidence.</p>
<p>The questions I have are this: Is SU willing to give out more aid to students who are applying early, because they realize these students are dedicated to the school? Also, assuming I am accepted into Newhouse, do I have a better shot of receiving in comparison to other students because Newhouse applicants bring the most potential to the school?</p>
<p>I am meeting with the dean of Newhouse in a few weeks, and also going for an interview. I am curious if I should mention my situation with my interviewee also… Appreciate any feedback you guys have!</p>
<p>Miselism,</p>
<p>I would be careful about applying early decision to Newhouse with borderline acceptance grades. It’s a well known fact among the students at Syracuse, that many people are disappointed with the early decision process. I’m not sure how it works at certain schools, but many people, including a personal friend of mine have been done wrong by the school.</p>
<p>Here’s what I’m talking about: you may apply early decision to Newhouse (or Whitman, the business school), and not get accepted to that specific college, but still get accepted to Syracuse University. A good number of people will apply to Newhouse early decision, but get accepted into the Arts and Sciences English program. Broadcast journalism majors may get funneled into the “Television, Radio, Film” program in the school of Visual Performing Arts (VPA), and newspaper journalism students may be funneled into the English program.</p>
<p>Also, I know people who apply to Whitman early decision for a program say the Finance program, and they will be accepted into the Arts and Sciences Economics program. There was even an article in our school newspaper, The Daily Orange, about this. </p>
<p>To be more specific, but not spill all of my friends information, he had over an A- GPA, and over 2000 on the SAT and was also involved in journalism during highschool. Also, he brought in the maximum allowable amount of AP credits, 30 credits, or the equivalent of 10 AP classes. He applied to Newhouse early decision and was accepted to A&S English. He was also accepted to other very respectable communications programs, and would have went had he not been required to attend Syracuse U due to the contract. If you are accepted to other schools, they may reject if you dishonor an early decision contract. Don’t just take my word for it. Contact the admissions dept, or bring this up in your meeting with the dean. I feel like this is happening more at Syracuse U. than at other schools which just wouldn’t accept a student rather than accepting them into another program.</p>
<p>Sorry for ranting about this, you may have already known but I feel like Syracuse is just desperate to trick certain students into having to attend the school. Many of the people that I’ve talked to about this didn’t know they could be “accepted”, but not into the same program, or even the same college they applied to.</p>
<p>To answer your original question:
I’ve never heard of students receiving more aid because they are early decision. Aid is either need based, or merit based, or sports based. Your dad losing your job might actually be a good thing. The maximum financial aid package with Syracuse is about $20k per year. Then you can get $3000 for each sibling that is simultaneously in school. My father also lost his job right before I applied to schools, and this actually helped me because I got a lot aid, and even if he did keep his job, my parents didn’t have any money saved up for me anyway.</p>