How many applied from those schools? How many more applied from those than say - Central Michigan.
Are they picking based on schools - or is that the top students choose those schools undergrad so that’s who gets into med school?
This is page 2 of that document - no where does it mention school name (perceived strength). Nor does their qualitative listing.
From the website:
It All Adds Up: Putting together the right mix of people for every incoming class is our passion. Where is home? What courses did you take in school? What do you care about most? Why do you want to be a doctor? Finding out the answers to these types of questions is all part of the holistic approach we take in selecting our next generation of physicians. Here’s what we consider when we consider you: Competencies: Including communication skills, critical thinking, cultural humility, ethical decision making, resilience, teamwork. Activities: Community service, employment, exposure to medicine, hobbies, leadership, research, social justice, sports, teaching. Coursework Load: Depth and breadth, other degrees. MCAT Score. Grade Trends. 4 Letters of recommendation. The road you’ve traveled, your life experiences. Interviews 2x30 min, conversations with Admissions Committee members; 6x6 min short-form interviews at interaction stations with members from the Med School community. Personal Statement. Secondary application essays.
Two doctors I know have said that the other students in their MD program came from “all over the place”. One was a McGill graduate, I am having trouble recalling where the other got their MD.
A daughter who graduated from a “top 5” DVM program said the same thing (and I got to hear where incoming students had gotten their bachelor’s during the incoming welcome reception). At least a couple of her premed friends from undergrad went to prestigious medical schools and now have their MDs. This was not from a “prestigious” undergraduate school, but it was from a very good undergraduate school. The particular friends who I am thinking of did have the stats to be very competitive for a prestigious undergrad school, but where they went was more affordable for them.
I still think that the main reason why Harvard (or Johns Hopkins or WUSTL or some other highly ranked undergraduate program) gets a higher percentage of their incoming freshmen into medical school is just because of the consistent high quality of the incoming freshmen students who arrive at Harvard (and WUST and JH) in the first place. The student who is able to get accepted to Harvard is likely to do well, even if they attend U.Mass Amherst or UVM or somewhere else instead for their bachelor’s degree.
So I am not surprised that Michigan’s MD program has a slightly higher number of students from highly ranked schools, but I think that this last point might be a lot of the reason.
Perhaps conditional probability theory relates to how we might interpret these results.
Yes, this is very much a good opportunity to apply the insight that correlation is not necessarily causation.
Like you can see at the bottom of the chart that the average OOS applicant has an 82.47%ile MCAT, the average OOS interviewee is 93.43%ile, offeree 93.45%ile. So largely all the work done by the MCAT is between the application stage and interview stage, but it did a lot of work!
OK, so then you are looking at undergrad programs which we know tend to matriculate undergraduate students with among the highest average SAT/ACTs. We don’t know the skew of their UofM medical school applicants, but I would guess if anything it is even more skewed to very good standardized-test-takers than their undergrad population as a whole.
So I am quite sure at least a good chunk of what we are seeing in that chart is simply a correlation involving MCAT scores. Indeed, I don’t necessarily think it is a big coincidence UCLA and Cal don’t seem to hold up proportionately between the application and interview stages, because I bet they skew (at least in relative terms) the other way on MCAT scores, given how their undergrad admissions works.
But then judging from the state map, California kids do just fine in the interview to offer transition, and it is not all Stanford. Like ex-Stanford, California went from 35 to 29, 83%, about the same as the 11/13, 85%, for Stanford.
That’s just test scores, probably other correlations like that are showing up as well. Which I am pretty confident is in fact most of the story–not the name of the undergrad per se, but the way it correlates with the MCAT plus other stuff involved in med school admissions.
By what standard is UMich a top twenty medical school?
1 website opined
If the graphic is meant to be evidence that “T20 med schools prefers prestige undergrad”, it does not show this. One needs to separate between correlation and causation.
For example, the graphic shows the following colleges had the highest number of admits to U Michigan medical school. While these undergrad colleges are prestigious, that is not the only reason why they might have a larger number of admits than a random direction state undergrad. Students at highly selective colleges are more likely to be well qualified applicants than the average student at a direction state, including higher MCAT scores on average and higher undergraduate GPA on average. If you are admitting only highest stat students, you are going to get a disproportionately large number of admits from highly selective undergrad colleges. Students at such colleges are also far more likely to want to pursue medicine than average and far more likely to make it to the point in which they apply, leading to a higher application rate. Without controlling for these factors and others, it is impossible to estimate whether there is a positive/negative/no admission preference for prestige.
- U Michigan (62)
- Harvard (24)
- Yale (14)
- Stanford (11)
- Duke (10)
admit.org is all self-reported data. The website is designed and maintained by a MD/PhD student from WashU and it has some serious flaws and limitations. Most importantly, it has an extremely limited dataset.
admit.org’s rankings are based on the website designer’s perception of prestige/selectiveness, not any particular objective standard.
Med school ranking is controversial because med schools have different missions and purposes. A med school can have a research-focus, a medical profession leadership focus, service to particular population focus, primary care focus, etc….
Schools that excel in one focus area seldom excel in the others. Also, if you ask 10 different med school admission deans which schools are highly ranked you’ll get 15 different answers. IOW, there is no consensus, even among medical education professionals.
I disagree. It does play a role, but the degree varies and is dependent on other factors.
There is no way of proving it because people are reluctant to admit it and the data is not publicly available.
I am a long-time physician who works at an academic center that instructs fellows, residents, and medical students. I have personally been involved in residency match lists for our department for many years. For a variety of reasons, the applicant’s institution is a consideration when we rank candidates. I have no reason to believe that other programs have different selection methods than ours.
I do not have any direct experience with the medical school admissions process, but I believe that it can’t be too different from the residency selection process.
This is my opinion.
The institution you’re referring to is the residency applicant’s medical school, not their undergraduate institution, correct?
Yes
Thank you for confirming. In that case, it is not relevant to this thread, which discusses whether the undergraduate institution matters.
The thread title specifically asks whether medical schools prefer elite undergraduate institutions.
I’m trying to be honest by giving my opinion, since I am knowledgeable about the next level in the training process. It’s not like I don’t hear what the residents, fellows, and other attendings tell me about the medical school admissions process, but I’m refraining from discussing opinions that I hear second hand.
started this thread because umich was proudly presenting this snapshot while others choose nondisclosure. does anyone know of other med schools who do this?
It’s interesting. I had cancer last year and went to Vandy - its radiation residents come from mostly unheralded undergraduate schools:
- Sewanee
- Vandy
- Wisconsin
- USC
- Ole Miss
- UMass
- Lafayette
- Rhodes
Neurological Surgery
- Vandy
- OK State
- JHU
- Quinnipiac
- Texas A&M
- Florida State
- Pitt
- Holy Cross
- Florida A&M
Duke - Family Medicine
- Tuskegee
- Dartmouth
- UCF
- Muhlenberg
- UMN
- UNC
- Temple
- FSU
- Gannon
- Earlham
- Campbell
- Emory
Last year I looked at Vandy, Duke and Hopkins - there was K State and KU, Lipscomb, SE Louisiana, Luther, U Puerto Rico
So I’m not buying the top undergrad school thing. Heck the derm I just saw was U Kentucky and E Carolina med school. Good luck getting an appointment with her in 2026.
Medical pros come from all over undergraduate and medical schools - -top and not top schools, even at the highest ranking hospitals.
I never said that prestige is the only factor, but I believe it’s a factor. It’s not impossible matching into a competitive specialty from a “non-prestigious” medical school.
The competitiveness of the medical specialty as well as the specific residency are also factors.
Hospital for Special Surgery (Orthopedic Surgery)
PGY-1
Williams/Stanford
Pittsburgh 8 year BS/MD
Carnegie Mellon/Columbia
CUNY-Hunter/Cornell
Harvard/Columbia
Boston College/Duke
Tulane/Case Western
Harvard/Harvard
Brown/NYU Grossman
PGY-2
Stanford/U Penn
Amherst/U Penn
Princeton/Cornell
Stanford/UCSF
Princeton/Stanford
Cornell/Miami
Cornell/Cornell
Stanford/Johns Hopkins
Johns Hopkins/Duke
PGY-3
Wisconsin/Penn St
Michigan/Penn
Harvard/UT Southwestern
Pomona/Cornell
Tufts/Case Western
Penn/Stanford
Yale/Wash U St Louis
Yale/Stanford
Penn/Harvard
PGY-4
Columbia/Harvard
Yale/Yale
Penn St/Penn
Georgia Tech/Cornell
Oregon/Medical College of Georgia
MIT/Johns Hopkins
Brown/SUNY Downstate
Washington/UCLA
UCLA/Columbia
MIT/Harvard
PGY-5
Yale/Cornell
Georgetown/Penn
Texas/Baylor
Georgia Tech/Stanford
Princeton/Wash U St Louis
Northwestern/Johns Hopkins
Chicago/Rush
Cal Tech/Harvard
Franklin & Marshall/Penn
Harvard/Thomas Jefferson
Harvard Ophthalmology
PGY-1
Université Saint-Joseph Faculté de Médecine
Oregon Health and Science University School of Medicine
Yale School of Medicine
Harvard Medical School
Yale School of Medicine
Weill Cornell Medical College
Thomas Jefferson University Sidney Kimmel Medical College
Tufts University School of Medicine
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
PGY-2 Residents
Harvard Medical School
Howard University
Weill Cornell Medical College
Harvard Medical School
Northwestern University, Feinberg School of Medicine
Harvard Medical School
Government Medical College and Hospital, Panjab University
Columbia University, Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons
Stanford University
PGY-3 Residents
Duke University School of Medicine
Weill Cornell Medical College
Harvard Medical School
Harvard Medical School
Harvard Medical School
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Yale School of Medicine
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
PGY-4 Residents
Stanford University School of Medicine
University of Dusseldorf Medical School
Harvard Medical School
University of Michigan Medical School
Harvard Medical School
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons
Stanford University School of Medicine
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Weill Cornell Medical College
To clarify, those I listed were undergrad of the residents at Vandy/Duke.
Of course, people often choose undergrad based on budget. U Mich is great but if U Kansas is $25k and U Mich $85k OOS, well most can’t afford. Same kid, etc.
But it’s one of those - there never will be an official answer.
It’s like law school. 160+ colleges represented in Harvard’s first year class of 570+.
You will always have those who believe pedigree matters and others that think gpa and scores matter.
Vandy used to put out the med school apps and decisions from its undergrads but I don’t think does.
What I saw was the MCAT seemed to matter a lot. Not Vandy.
Anyway it’s one of those topics with varying opinions.
Adding Vandy residents for Orthopedic Surgery to match your list:
- Columbia
- Miss State
- Vandy
- Rice
- UCLA
- Tulane
- Tulsa
- Sewanee
- W&L
- Michigan
- FSU
- Notre Dame
- JHU
- E New Mexico
- UGA
- Oklahoma
- Harvard
- UTK
- Freed Hardeman
Mix of big and not so big.
Edited by moderator to comply with forum rules
You can believe what you want. I am in the business. I can tell you with certainty that depending on the competitiveness of the residency program and the medical specialty, residency programs will not even consider applicants from certain groups of medical schools unless it’s an extremely unusual case.
As I said earlier, residency programs don’t pay much attention to the applicant’s undergraduate institution, but they do pay attention to the applicant’s medical school.