I mean it would seem to make perfect logical sense that most of my students would be average, would it not? After TAing my first midterm for a large general class, I think I finally understand why you read so many articles these days describing the frustration employers have with GenY and their sense of entitlement. After the exam scores were posted the TAs and the professor for the course were bombarded with emails complaining about scores received, with many students feeling that we should change their scores because they ‘studied hard’ for the exam. Exactly why should we change a score for ‘working hard’? How exactly does one quantify hard work? Would it be acceptable to you if a mechanic ‘worked hard’ on the brakes for your car that ultimately failed, killing your entire family? Would it be acceptable for your surgeon to have ‘worked hard’ performing your brain operation, but made a mistake that permanently disabled you? Would it be acceptable for an engineer to have ‘worked hard’ on designing a bridge, only to have it collapse and injure dozens of people? Oh, this wouldn’t be acceptable? OK, then why should a student get a grade of ‘A’ for material they didn’t master even though they ‘worked hard’ on the course?
One student, after demanding to see us for office hours on a Friday night and Sat. night (which we politely declined to setup because we have wives and children to attend to ourselves), started crying over their grade on the exam—mind you this student scored less than 1 standard deviation below the mean (so they’re on track for about a B- average). Where does this come from? Why is it so devastating to so many individuals to find out that they’re B average students? Why do high schools continue to churn out straight A students for B average work and understanding of the material? Why do parents tell their kids that they deserve medals just for participation, and shield them from feeling the effects of failure? It is extremely frustrating try to explain to 100+ people who all think they deserve an A, that ‘no you really don’t. Now go away, take your licks, and do better next time’. It’s really not the end of the world finding out that you aren’t the smartest person in the room and many people who aren’t the smartest will still be successful after they graduate, even if they’re not 4.0 students.
Lord knows I’ve even failed or done terrible on some exams in my life, and it was never the end of the world. You simply move on and learn from your mistakes. Why are there simply so many students these days that are incapable of accepting the truth?
Are these freshmen at a top school? If so, then perhaps most of them were straight A students in high school and this is the first time they’re at risk of getting a B. After all, not everybody can still be at the top. But, if so, nevertheless it IS a difficult transition to make in self-perception.
–No, the exam was not unreasonably difficult. The average was approximately a 74, with a standard deviation of 10 (high score 94, low score 34). This was pretty much a perfect exam and the numbers the students posted are something almost everyone looks for when making up an exam.
–Not a premed course, but a course required for a degree that many use to apply to med school
–Sophomores at a top school. And yes, the professor of the course explicitly stated that this is the first time many students will ever experience getting a B in their entire life. Many will be devastated to learn they’re not the top dog in their class.
Maybe some students are like that but not all students are like that. Mine took the almost failed midterm and turned around to a B on a hard course. But she did try a lot harder the following quarter. Not crying or anything. But it was a shock to her system. She prepped for exams a lot better after this experience.
Ahhh, I get it now. You’re absolutely right to give the grades that you’re giving (obviously). But I do see where the kids are coming from better now…perhaps not so much of a sense of entitlement. Rather the problem is that this is the first time that they’ve ever gotten a B (and they may be working extremely hard just to get that B, for all we know) – and yet they probably feel that this B affects their future greatly if they’re premed. So they are justified in feeling that their future goal is at risk. The reality is that not everybody is going to make it into med school – and this might be the first red flag that they might not end up on the happy side of that probability…which might make them feel a little desperate.
Just to be clear here…I am NOT saying that they’re justified in asking you to change their score for “working hard” or asking you to meet with them on a Friday or Saturday night. Simply that they may be justified for having the emotions that they’re feeling – as they learn to adjust to their new reality of not being the “top dog” and that they may not make it into med school if this continues.
I don’t think these are good analogies because in real life all these people still get compensated for their “hard work” even if the outcome is ultimately bad.
Also the student might not be average, just for this test and perhaps this class. I know from my daughter’s school website, one kid got a C in the class Intro to Computer Science but ended up getting an award from the department. She said she realized she had to kick her study habit up a notch and she did. She graduated summa cum laude in CS.
I remember that first semester in law school when the entire class of “A” students who had NEVER received a grade below an A - got Bs, Cs, and even Ds! It was hard, it was devastating for many, it was a wake up call for some. Cut your students a little slack (I am not saying change the grades). I am suggesting a little humanity when individuals are perhaps for the first time facing the fact that they may not be the best of the best.
Also – you’re getting paid to teach them – in essence, if they’ve all worked hard and are not understanding the majority of the material, it may be that the teacher isn’t doing his job.
Point in case: lousy math teacher last year meant my daughter essentially had to teach herself honors math. She struggled to get a B, which was one of the highest grades in the class. Good teacher this year, is getting an A in BC Calculus with little stress. We’re not complainers, but the problem was the teacher, not my daughter. “The truth will out,” as they say, when she takes her AP exam, but that’s too late for college apps.
Sorry those freshmen are being hard on you. I’m going through it myself as a freshman in general chemistry, I’ve had the experience of getting a B on a test and a C on a quiz a few weeks back, things I’ve never done before now. Hell, I even flunked a test in my math class, which I’ve NEVER done before. Thankfully there’s small safety nets built into my classes; I can drop a few chem quizzes and I can retake the math test. I’m not screwed yet. But with a large scholarship with a 3.5 GPA requirement to keep and considering myself a top student coming in here, it’s still been quite a blow to my pride and shaken me up a lot because I’m terrified of losing my scholarship. I’ve swallowed my pride and started going to the supplemental instruction sessions, which has helped a lot (I think, I’ve got a test this week, so we’ll see) and trying to study even harder and smarter. My only complaint about my TAs isn’t my grades, it’s the time it takes to get them back. But I try to be patient - I know having some 300-400 quizzes to grade must not be a piece of cake.
There are whiners out there, sure. Try to be patient though… it’s hard. But obviously don’t raise scores without valid reasons. Remember that people say things they don’t mean when under pressure. I certainly did after that chem test - collapsed in a heap and bawled in my dorm room. Seriously I did, I was that disappointed in myself. After I came to my senses I realized that I shouldn’t be all THAT upset over a high B in a weeder course like that. I’ve still got a decent shot at an A, and it could be okay even if I wind up with a B.
The OP is being paid to teach these kids, but the OP is not being paid to make average performers into superior performers. It’s not as if the highest class score was a D. Students who get Bs and CS learned the material; theyjust weren’t outstanding on that particular exam. The teachers and TAs are not to blame; the student needs to suck it up, and either work harder, or accept that they won’t be a top student in that class.
This mirrors complaints I’ve heard from TA/Prof friends at various elite private Us about entitled undergrads who demand an A despite turning in B or worse level work.
Heck, I’ve got to see this firsthand one time after being mistaken for a TA for a US history survey course at an Ivy by an entitled undergrad who not only yelled at me for the C level grade, but also rudely thrust the graded paper into my face.
Only thing is that the issue of demanding As despite turning in work meriting a B+ or lower-level grades isn’t a new phenomenon strictly limited to Gen Y/Millenials. There were plenty of such entitled undergrads back when I was in college as a tail-end Gen Xer around 2 decades ago* and some boomer-aged colleagues/Profs had some amusing accounts of classmates acting the same way back in the 60’s, 70’s, and early '80s. Only difference is such behavior may be more commonplace in recent years due to greater stakes regarding post-college employment/grad schools than in the past.
One Prof who taught at an elite U for 2+ decades by the early '00s recounted having some wealthy undergrads literally threatening to sue with actual lawyers showing up to the Prof's/Dean's office. Fortunately, the U had enough clout from a large endowment and a large cadre of law Profs/lawyers from one of the top law schools in the nation to laugh such students off rather than being intimidated by them.
I’m with all the other posters here saying that this TA is a bit out of line in the condescending attitude displayed (with an added dash of pointing out that this isn’t anything new, so it doesn’t work to blame it on Gen-Y attitudes—faculty were complaining about this in the 80s and 90s, at the very least), but to jump to the idea that the teacher is to blame if a students fails, well, that’s problematic on many levels.
First problem: Yes, faculty are paid to teach students. However, they are not paid to ensure student success. Faculty are paid to present material in such a way that students may be able to ensure their own success, but even then there’s no guarantee that hard work on the students’ part will guarantee success or even understanding.
Yes, there are poor teachers. However, having been on my share of review committees that have looked at this, at least at the college level, a lack of student success is most often the student’s own doing.
@xlmdienex Haha you sound exactly like my chemistry teacher. We had a difficult exam one day and the day after she posted the exam scores online, she came to class very annoyed. She said she got over 20 emails from students who were upset that they didn’t receive an A and their reasoning for why they deserved an A was, “I really love chemistry and work super hard”.
There tends to be a difference between how students are expected to approach learning/studying in most American high schools and college. With the exception of some academically rigorous private/boarding schools and public magnet HSs, what you seem to describe as “proper teaching” would be considered “spoon-feeding the material” by most college Profs I’ve had/known and most HS teachers I’ve had at my public magnet HS.
A few HS teachers I’ve had made it a point to not cover everything in a given chapter we were responsible for reading outside of class in order to encourage us to do all our readings and go beyond what’s covered in class lecture/notes as that’s more of what’s expected for college undergrads.
Instead of teachers expecting to teach most/all of the material to be covered on the test, the undergrad student would be expected to take more initiative in his/her learning process with less proactive guidance from the Prof/TA. Instead, it’s up to the student to take the more proactive approach to his/her learning process and if needed, take the initiative to seek the TA/Prof out well BEFORE exam time.
Despite the growing pains of adjusting to this from K-8, it ended up serving me and most HS classmates quite well once we went off to undergrad.
That may be their stated reason, but was the actual reason the fact that any grade lower than an A chips away at their dream of getting into medical school?