I remember the first Chem exam we picked up from the TAs at the front of the room. The student in front of me wanted to know what the big red “-9” was circled on her paper; she was alarmed she might have gotten nine wrong. Unfortunately, that was her score out of 113 possible.
Maybe the Parents Forum (which I think of as the “grownup forum”) wasn’t the best place for the OP to post, but personally I didn’t find it haughty or cocky. Frankly, a lot of the responses seem more condescending than anything the OP wrote.
My dual enrolled kid got a 75 on a chem 1 exam where the average was 50. He was not happy but agreed that this is a college level, engineering track class. Only option is to work harder and pick up all the extra credit points possible.
I think TAs can best serve students by being kind, fair, and reasonable. Clear communication helps too. But it’s also a two-way street.
Often the tone of the thread is set by the title the poster chooses. It was unnecessary and inappropriate. The OP is whining as much as the students he complains about.
Agree, if the OP wanted to whine about his annoying, entitled students, the grad student forum might have been a better choice.
As an aside, there was a thread many many years ago that a parent started about their “lazy” child. That poster was frustrated with their child’s level of effort in the app process, IIRC. That parent got ripped a new one by posters who were outraged by the title of the thread. Well, that student is now a grad student at Stanford. Guess he matured. So can the students here that the OP is chastising. Sorry, but its equally likely the OP’s teaching skills and/or tolerance for young adults during this learning phase is/ are just “average”. Dont get me wrong, I don’t condone grade grubbing. But if you dont like your students or their behaviors to the degree that you berate them to their parents, maybe some soul searching is in order.
Interesting how many of the posters in this thread are blaming the TA for being inhumane. When these kids go to seek employment will they cry when they are turned down for a job and threaten to sue the company? It has happened.
We told our kid that college was going to be hard (and he was not a straight A kid in high school but a hard worker.) His first semester in college he got a C in one class and a C- in another, both in classes he worked hard in. If he hadn’t he would have gotten F’s. He was a bit disappointed in the C but thrilled with his C-. He did become a better student as he progressed through college but still rarely got an A in 4 years though never got a C again. He graduated with a 3.2. He was thrilled and we were thrilled.
I think a lot of students think college is going to like high school and their parents think their kid is going to be an A student like they were in high school. I’ve read posts from parents on this forum wringing their hands because their kid has a 3.0. I feel sorry for their kids.
This. There will always be a Bell curve for any population.
Tom Sr:
Many large corporations have now taken a policy of not acknowledging receipt of an application/resume, etc, because adults (not just students) have sued or threatened to sue, trying to claim that this was an implicit acceptance. Lots of pathetic, litigious behavior these days.
I experienced first hand a parent contacting their state legislator demanding that something be done because their student wasn’t doing well at a state university.
Well, if the kids were a little more honest that’s one thing… I haven’t complained about any grades so far, but it would seem to me if I was a teacher and a kid was complaining about a grade, the reason would make a little difference. If it’s only “I’ve always been an A student and I work hard” that’s pretty subjective and not that relevant. A dad I know tells the story of how he got through some hard class (like Calc II or Physics II or something) - he was on a scholarship with a GPA requirement. He calculated it out and realized that he would be 2 points away in this one class from getting the grade he needed to keep the scholarship. (He probably needed a C.) So he went to the teacher, explained the situation, and asked as nicely as he could if he would give him just a couple more points somewhere so that he could keep his scholarship. He acknowledged that the teacher had no obligation to raise his grade, was very polite and respectful when he asked, and made sure the teacher knew why he wanted the slightly higher grade. The teacher took pity on him and gave him exactly 2 points back on the last exam - he passed the course and went on to get a bachelors and a Ph.D.
Good point by @cobrat . My D got a surprise on her first college test (a foreign language that she didn’t study in HS) because some content from the text was not covered in class but was on the test. Fortunately this was not a mid-term (and it’s an intro level course) so she has plenty of time to adjust to higher expectations. As OP suggests, you simply learn from your mistakes and move on.
I’d guess that this TA is average as well. Fact is that most people will fall into the average range. The better students will get ahead through hard work, good time management, etc.
I got a 45 on my first college exam, in honors physics. My unweighted HS GPA was over 98.0 (the school didn’t use a 4.0 scale - it’s the same as my kids’ school - what a PITA). Anyway, I was devastated, but I got on the ball and worked harder. I still got a C in the course, but I knew I deserved it. I ended up graduating with high honors.
Compare the OP to this: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2014/05/why_professors_inflate_grades_because_their_jobs_depend_on_it.html.
So part of the problem stems from high school and college teachers who will cave in the face of complaints.
While searching the web quickly for things, I found excerpts from books authored by a current private college placement consultant (not Michele Hernandez) who advocated outright grade-grubbing by students and parents. (I won’t link the selections, as I find the approach abhorrent.)
The complaint about effort and grading is apparently a common one among students; OP, it may be worthwhile to open up a discussion with students who advance this argument about the fact that effort is not a part of college grading rubrics, especially in the sciences. This is post about this division of opinion between students and professors: http://www.facultyfocus.com/articles/teaching-professor-blog/should-effort-count-students-certainly-think-so/.
Another good approach may be to refer the students to your college’s learning support system. If they were A students in high school and in freshman year, they may not have internalized good study skills for sophomore year courses in demanding majors. Are they studying at least 3 hours per each hour spent in class? Are they getting enough sleep? Are they forming study groups to quiz each other about the material? Do they know how to study? (Sounds like a silly question, I know, but bright kids sometimes have not had to learn how to study. They hit the wall eventually.)
A bell curve among an elite population shouldn’t necessarily yield scores as low as a 34. If you take the top 100 kids in the country, and make a test hard enough so that some fail it, and call that “a perfect bell curve,” I’m not sure you’re serving anyone well.
Some kids have had someone run interference for them anytime they encountered a challenge, too.
Our town has a 6th grade academy, and the theme of the academy is basically “you are responsible for the grades you earn”. That is true in 6th grade, in high school, and in college. The teachers don’t give grades, they calculate them.
I think that this is the cause of “grade deflation” that students claim exists at some colleges. But is comes down to “I didn’t get the grade that I know I deserve”.
Many top caliber HS kids simply do not realize that they have to step up their academic efforts at college in comparison to what they have been doing in HS. It includes those who graduated at the top of their respective highly ranked HSs and decided to attend in-state public college. Another factor is that their pride prevents them from seeking help that is widely available at college. And the 3rd point is, whatever the difficulty level of the exam, it is NOT in the interest of prof. or TA to make it unreasonably difficult. It is not in their interest because it will reflect on their own failure to teach. So, the fact is that the test is usually at the level that corresponds to the level presented in the class. Again, there a failure to recognize that the responsibility to do well on test is up to a student and not the prof. and not the TA. Working hard also includes SEEKING help if there is a slightest doubt in understanding of the concept. The help is widely available at college, but many fail to use it because of their “pride” which I call a “false pride”.
This comment is based strictly on my D’s observation who was amazed and shocked by the gap of academic level at HS and college. For references, she graduated from the #2 private HS in our state and attended in-state public university. She was on both sides, the one who felt that she needed help (in Physics) and asked prof. very often during office hours, she was practically always correct in her understanding, but she wanted to make sure. That is what you do if you cannot afford a B in your classes. She also was the one who provided a lot of help as a Supplemental Instructor in Gen. Chem. class.
Complaining in general about your grade after the fact will not help. However, checking the grading is a good idea. The grader (prof. or TA) is only a human being who possibly can make a mistake. Going over every marked error on the test to make sure that it is actually your error and not a mistake done by the grader may result in adjusting your grade upwards. it has happened to my D.
Agreed. In the dept. at the first college where I taught, there were curve rubrics to iron out such distortions among a high-achieving student body. If a bell curve were used to determine an average, that average had to be adjusted so that there were no fewer than a certain percentage of As and no more than a certain percentage of Ds and Es.
E’s? Never heard of that grade. What’s an “E” ? Most go from D to F.