Taking both AP physics C courses simultaneously?

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<p>Yes, this is a very good idea, although it may be difficult to do if the student is not ahead of the normal sequence in math. Fortunately, if the student aces calculus BC and then finds that he knows the college’s freshman calculus course material well (by checking the old final exams), he can take multivariable calculus in the first semester concurrently with the physics mechanics course, followed by the physics course with E&M second semester.</p>

<p>For example, here is Berkeley’s normal sequence for entering physics majors without having taken calculus before (or not knowing or remembering enough to start ahead):</p>

<p>semester 1: Math 1A (calculus 1)
semester 2: Math 1B (calculus 2), Physics 7A (mechanics, wave motion)
semester 3: Math 53 (multivariable calculus), Physics 7B (heat, E&M)
semester 4: Math 54 (linear algebra, differential equations), Physics 7C (modern physics)</p>

<p>But a student who knows the Math 1A-1B material well can do:</p>

<p>semester 1: Math 53, Physics 7A
semester 2: Math 54, Physics 7B
semester 3: advanced math*, Physics 7C
*optional, but some courses are recommended for physics majors</p>

<p>(Of course, all of the above sample schedules should add other courses like breadth courses, English composition, etc. to make full schedules.)</p>

<p>Note that Berkeley offers honors versions of Physics 7A, 7B, and 7C, and Math 1B, 53, and 54.</p>

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I don’t know a thing about Physics, but I did note that your son is not taking any Honors humanities classes. Assuming, of course, that your school does offer an Honors level between CP and AP, I would have some concern that his schedule is quite lopsided and not very challenging in the non-STEM area, which could be a weakness in his college apps. If there are no Honors courses, at least one AP in a non-STEM field would also help balance his transcript.</p>

<p>My son is a junior taking AP physics C this year. The course covers both Mechanics and E&M; Mechanics is covered 1st semester and E&M is covered 2nd semester. I had no idea that some schools offer this as 2 separate classes.</p>

<p>My son also took Physics C as a single course - mechanics semester 1 and E&M semester 2. He really enjoyed the class, thought the pacing was fine, and received 5s on both exams. He does not, however, consider the class to be a substitute for college level physics (engineering major), but rather, more of a solid introduction. If your son enjoys the subject, and especially if he plans to major in physics, he should do fine. It is also considered one of the most rigorous classes, so it will look very good on his college apps.</p>

<p>bovertine makes good points. </p>

<p>I will revise my opinion to say that if the teacher is good, it would not hurt the student to take Physics C E&M and then retake E&M in college, after multi-variable calculus.</p>

<p>It is helpful if there is someone (the teacher, a parent or relative, an older sibling, a neighbor) who can check from time to time that the student is on track conceptually.</p>

<p>It might even be an advantage to take AP Physics C (assuming that the course is good), if that qualifies the student for an honors or other advanced section of introductory E&M in college.</p>

<p>Vector calculus is so much at the heart of E&M that it’s hard for me to imagine the course without it. bovertine mentioned Maxwell’s equations, which certainly ought to be written in terms of divergences and curls. Also, these are inherently partial differential equations. Stoke’s theorem and Green’s theorem get quite a work-out in a good E&M course. </p>

<p>I am very fond of the PSSC physics book, though, which is a high-school level book that uses only pre-calculus concepts.</p>

<p>A book that I highly recommend for E&M is E. M. Purcell’s book that is part of the Berkeley Physics Series. I think it’s just called Electricity and Magnetism. This has a great explanation of the fact that the force due to a magnetic field acts perpendicular to the field. Relativistic analyses are incorporated throughout this book, and it is good mathematically, yet it is very fundamental and pictorial.</p>

<p>ucbalumnus, could a Berkeley student take Math 1B during the first semester? If that is possible, it would position the student better for physics, and it would be less demanding in terms of the high school preparation. (Perhaps it is not offered, though.)</p>

<p>Does he know any basic calculus now? Once he’s learned the mechanics portion of AP Physics B, the mechanics portion of AP Physics C doesn’t really add THAT much new material, whereas the E&M part is probably too hard to do simultaneously. The basic problem solving notions are the same. The new stuff is basically some simple calculus and more depth on rotational mechanics. Also, at most schools Physics C Mechanics is taught simultaneously with Calculus, so the amount calculus needed isn’t huge. </p>

<p>If he uses Giancolli for Physics B, the same author has another book suitable for Physics C (I think it’s called Physics for Scientists and Engineers). I mention this because many sections in the two texts are word for word identical, so it’s really easy to figure out what material in Physics C isn’t in Physics B. </p>

<p>I think Physics C Mechanics is a good prerequisite for Physics C E&M because the latter requires more calculus, and having done some calculus in Mechanics, which is easier, would probably help a lot. </p>

<p>If he has time now, and you can get a tutor, It might not be that hard to have someone tutor him so that he could take both Physics B and Physics C Mechanics this May. They are usually offered at the same time, so he’d have to take the Physics C exam during the conflict period. Still, it seems easier than taking the Physics C Mechanics class which has so much of the same material yet will require redundant homeworks that may start to seem like busywork when he’s already so busy.</p>

<p>I agree with QM too though. Vector calculus was made for E&M and teaching it without it just makes it harder. Physics C might give him the edge to get into an honors physics class in college where they teach E&M that assumes fluency with MVCalc. Then it gets really cool!</p>

<p>The Feynman Lectures in Physics are also very good in terms of E&M–as goes without saying. The three-book set is available in paperback and ought to be in every physics major’s personal library.</p>

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<p>Yes, Math 1B and H1B are offered in the fall for freshmen who know the Math 1A stuff well, but are less confident about the Math 1B stuff. See [Home</a> Page - Online Schedule Of Classes](<a href=“http://schedule.berkeley.edu%5DHome”>http://schedule.berkeley.edu) .</p>

<p>For what it is worth, a list of the top 10 most common courses that the entering freshmen registered for included Math 1A, Math 53, and Math 1B were on the list for fall 2011, in that order:</p>

<p><a href=“http://opa.berkeley.edu/surveys/2011ProfileNewBerkeleyUndergraduates.pdf[/url]”>http://opa.berkeley.edu/surveys/2011ProfileNewBerkeleyUndergraduates.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>This is one of the books used at Berkeley for Physics H7B, as indicated by the schedule’s links to book lists.</p>

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<p>Complementary to this suggestion, work through textbooks used by physics majors at good schools, for example the following books used at Harvard.</p>

<p>Introduction to Classical Mechanics by David Morin</p>

<p>Electricity and Magnetism by Edward M. Purcell and David J. Morin (3rd edition to be released today according to Amazon. Purcell’s earlier editions are classics.)</p>

<p>The Physics of Waves by Howard Georgi</p>

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<p>I got 5’s on both the mechanics and E&M portions of the AP Physics C exam, but the E&M class I took using Purcell was much more difficult than what I had studied earlier. An AP physics C class is not useless but should be thought of as preparation for E&M as taught to physics majors, not a substitute for it. Given 5s on AP Physics C I think an introductory mechanics course can be skipped. As others have said, the difficulty of E&M stems from "Div, Grad, Curl, and All That (the title of a book by Schey).</p>

<p>MommaJ, you are right that his schedule is lopsided. This is a reflection of his skills. He has difficulty with classes involving writing, and gets extended time on essays and essay tests. He would drown in an AP humanities class, but shines brilliantly in the STEM classes. </p>

<p>ClassicRockerDad, he will be starting calculus this semester. He is in an honors combined math analysis/calculus class, and they are about ready to move into the calculus. </p>

<p>This is all very eye-opening. I didn’t know, for example, that there was so much overlap between Mechanics and Physics B. </p>

<p>My son will be talking with the physics teacher this week. I’ll let you know what he says. Maybe we’ll gain some insight into why mechanics and E/M are each separate, full year courses. I double checked the curriculum guide and yes, they are.</p>

<p>Thank you everyone for the generous input. As someone with no physics background at all, this is a lot to take in and I will need some time to digest it! Fortunately, we have a couple of weeks before registration.</p>

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<p>Is the difficulty a problem with writing in general, or writing about English literature and other humanities subjects in particular?</p>

<p>As a physicist or mathematician, he will have to write (homework solutions, lab reports, research papers if/when he gets to doing research), but writing about physics and math is somewhat different from writing about humanities.</p>

<p>He has no problem with writing up labs or proofs, etc. It’s more when he needs to get creative and, say, make up a short story or analyze a novel and discuss the protagonist’s primary motivations. Though I must say, he has improved a lot in these areas also.</p>

<p>I perhaps should have clarified that the problem has been in classes that require expressive writing, not writing in general.</p>