Hi everybody! For some background, I’m a high school junior with a 4.87 GPA W (4.0 UW) taking 4 AP classes (AP Computer Science Principles, AP World History, AP Lang, and AP Biology). I also took AP Government and AP Spanish Language last year (got a 5 on both exams). My extracurriculars are probably my strongest asset, with a focus on creative writing and advocacy (I run/have founded several clubs, do regional advocacy, have won some writing competitions, have an internship in local gov, etc).
Basically, I signed up for Calculus with Applications this year (instead of AP Calc AB or BC) because I have no interest in a STEM major of any kind. However, now I’m hearing that it could have a really bad effect on my admissions chances into top colleges (my dream school is Brown). I’m still planning on taking AP Statistics next year, so I’ll have an AP math class under my belt come graduation time, but this is still giving me tons of anxiety. Should I really stock up on APs next year to make up for it (like 6 APs?).
Any advice is appreciated haha!
First, there are plenty of great colleges in the US that can give you a great education.
Second, it may hurt at the most highly-rejective colleges such as Brown: that top tier expects applicants to have challenged themselves in all areas, and a higher number of APs next year is not the solution to your choice to not take the highest level of math you could have. AOs don’t count APs, they look at core course progression in all areas in the context of what the hardest levels are available at your school. I think you should be true to yourself and find a college that fits you: it sounds as though you do not enjoy being challenged in areas that are less interesting to you , so it does not make a lot of sense that you would want to spend 4 yrs with a large percentage of peers who may not be a fit. Just because a small pile of schools get a lot of attention for being at the top of various lists does not make them good fits. They can be extremely bad fits due to the intensity & academic exuberance of the majority who attend.
To me, “no interest in a STEM major” pretty much says “do not apply to MIT”. However, I think that the advice from the MIT “applying sideways” blog is also accurate for other selective universities, including Brown. As I understand it, the recommendation is that you do what is right for you, and do it very well. This basic approach has worked well for my family, but what each of us has done has been very different (and this approach has taken us to very different universities).
If Calculus with Applications is the right class for you, then take Calculus with Applications.
I was a math major. I always liked the applications of math. If you don’t have a use for it, what is the point? I lucked out in that I took regular calculus at the same time as calculus-based physics, and the professors were obviously in cahoots. We got to use much of what we learned in calculus a few days later in physics. Seeing how it is useful helps a lot when studying math (which again suggests that calculus with applications makes sense).
And this is also very true.
Similarly, I would not “stock up on APs” for the sake of university admissions. Instead, take the classes that are right for you. Keep in mind that during your senior year of high school you will also be very busy with university applications, visiting schools, deciding where to attend, and related activities.
I totally see what you’re saying. However, I find it really discouraging that a single class might negate all of the other challenging courses I have taken. I’m definitely not slacking off in anything intensity-wise and I’ve challenged myself in many areas, even those that aren’t as interesting to me (like AP Biology, etc). Is one class really going to make or break my “academic exuberance” for an admissions officer?
No one knows! I doubt one class makes or breaks anyone! But Brown and the like specifically say in admissions sessions that they look for those who challenge themselves in all academic areas, even ones they do not enjoy as much. And that is the type of unhooked kids they pick , from the schools in our area. We toured so many of these types of schools when ours were applying and that level of school all said similar phrases. Tours and visits are well into high school, so after classes were already picked and it would have been too late to change anyway, and one shouldn’t change their plans just to try to make it look “better”. I agree with the MIT blog, that each applicant should do what works for them. The speakers all seemed to say it as part of the “what we look for” , to manage expectations. Expand your college search broadly and recognize that it all works out, you will find a great place that fits you! Try not to get hung up on one school. You took the class that was right for you, so that was a good decision.
You chose your schedule.
The likelihood is you’ll get turned down to Brown - so what if you take AB and still get rejected.
If you take your current class and get rejected you’ll assume it’s why but you’ll have no idea why.
That you don’t want STEM is not the reason to avoid AP Calc.
That it’s too hard for you, above your capabilities is the reason.
There’s lots of great schools out there, Brown and otherwise.
There are no dream schools. Many great ones. And don’t panic on things you don’t know about / you are panicked thinking this class would hurt you but you don’t know - so don’t panic.
Good luck.
You could still take Calc AB or BC next year instead of AP Stats, no? That would show better rigor for the highly rejective schools.
The issue is highly rejective schools will have plenty of applicants with outstanding, interesting extracurriculars, and the highest rigor, even in areas where they are not interested. You asked whether it would “really matter”, and the answer is it definitely could. AP stat (which is algebra based and not accepted for credit by some schools) is definitely not as rigorous as AB, or preferably BC calculus.
You sound like a fantastic applicant and I’m sure you will have lots of choices. The issue is there are tons of thousands of similarly situated applicants and many of them will be applying to the same schools as you are. If you can take the higher level calculus and do well in it I would to have the best chance at schools with single digit acceptance rates.
If it makes you feel better, my D22 is an example of someone who never took Calculus and still got into great schools. She took pre-Calc junior year and AP Stats senior year. She also did not take Chemistry or Physics. But did take 4 years of science including AP Bio and AP Environmental. She has zero interest in STEM and loathed every second of her math classes. On the flip side she had lots of leadership at school, had a 4.0, took 12 APs (all social science/English except the 2 science ones) and took a bunch of extra history classes for fun at the local community college. Her essay was all about her love of history. She got into a bunch of schools and attends a T10 school where she is doing great. It sounds like you are really involved with things you love and I think if you have an interesting passion in the social sciences or humanities and you can show this in your application, it could turn out fine. Again, this is based on a sample of one, but just wanted to give you some reassurance.
Would that be better? I wasn’t sure if taking AP Calc after already taking Calc w/ Apps would look worse than just moving on to AP Statistics.
Unfortunately I think I’m too far into the year to change. If I could go back and take AP Calc instead, I would. But now I’m already kind of panicking and can do nothing about it.
That’s my point - what I said - you chose the schedule. So why panic? Nothing you can do.
As I noted - if you get turned down to Brown, you’ll assume it was because of this but you shouldn’t. It’s most likely you will get turned down to Brown regardless.
There are no dream schools - none. And there are tons of great schools.
One parent above gave an example that her student landed a top school. And you will too- tops for you - one that works for you, Brown or otherwise.x
Life is about decisions and challenges.
You made a decision and it’s great for you.
And if things don’t end up how you want (and they’re unlikely to because you’ve made the mistake of honing in on one very very difficult to get into school and nothing else) - but if things don’t end up how you want - guess what - you’ll pivot and find yourself in another great situation.
No reason to panic.
You made a decision. You’re living the decision.
And it will all work out great!!
This is not the first nor last time in life you might, with the ability to second guess, go back - but you have to move forward - it’s all you can do.
Best of luck.
I encourage you to consider taking AP Calc AB or BC (ideally BC since you are getting some calc now) if you are targeting highly rejective schools, even if you aren’t looking at a STEM major. What does your HS counselor think?
That’s actually a really great idea. Unfortunately, my high school is huge (over 3500 kids) and getting individualized feedback from my counselor is very difficult. But I will set up a meeting to talk with him about it, and maybe consider taking Calc BC next year!
Thank you, this is actually really encouraging! Seems like me and your daughter have a lot in common.
Yeah, thank you. And just to be clear, Brown is not my end-all, be-all in the slightest. It’s just a school that I would love to go to, knowing it’s very selective. I’m very open to other schools, and I know there are a million great ones out there. I just highlighted Brown specifically in my OG post.
You’re falling victim to the modern American college con. It’s one that says you can only be successful if you go to a top ranked school, T100, T50, T20, T5, Twhatever, and that one high school class can make the difference in achieving the dream.
The reality is that the most successful people are in the positions they are in because they have strong work ethic. They grind and take advantage of the opportunities in front of them. They come from all sorts of different schools.
Don’t lose any sleep over this. Take the math that resonates with you. You’re far better off taking Statistics, understanding and enjoying it, and getting an A, than struggling through AP Calc and doing poorly.
Talk to your current math teacher about which class makes the most sense for you senior year.
But, I’m also in the camp to take the class you want senior year. Build your college list around your strengths instead of trying to predict what you think they want.
You will be competitive with or without AP calc.
I will be the voice of dissent. You’re not into math. You’re into humanities/social sciences. There is zero reason you need to study calculus for that, much less AP calculus, and really AP stats would be a far more useful class for you and your interests. Will not taking AP Calc keep you out of Brown? I seriously doubt your acceptance/rejection will come down to a single class - any class. Yes, they want to see rigor - and you’ve got that through your other APs. Personally, I think you are fine. You may or may not get into Brown (or other top school), but if you have an overall rigorous schedule, great grades, strong ECs, I feel it is very unlikely that a lack of AP Calc will be the deciding factor, especially for a non-STEM major. I just don’t see an AO reading your application and being like, “Wow, he/she is fantastic and a perfect fit! Oh wait…he/she only took Calc with Apps and not AP Calc…Damn, that changes my ENTIRE opinion about his/her viability as an applicant!” I just don’t think so - not for a non-STEM major, anyway. And even if they do, there are literally HUNDREDS of other great colleges out there who will love you, with or without AP calc. I personally would not sweat this at all.
(As an aside, I have two MAs and a PhD and have NEVER taken a single calculus class of any sort in my entire life, so I may be biased, but I also fully believe that academic success is possible without calc )
Looking at your closed thread - you have two APs so far. What is your weighting system that you have a 4.87 ? It doesn’t align based on most scales.
B4 you say top 20 school - will you qualify for aid ? If not, are your parents willing to spend more than $350k on your education - even if with your stats you could go to a fine school for under $30k a year, $40k a year etc ?
I think the responses to your other posted issue above are unchanged.
And talking to your teacher and a counselor is a good place to go too.
Good luck.