Talking to folks whose freshman isn't doing well...and the student

Parent Cafe
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<p>My daughter and her best friend are freshmen at different public colleges. Late last night her friend called her to say she had just gotten an e-mail saying she was being kicked out of the Honors program and dorm (and lost her housing stipend) because her first semester GPA was (way) too low. She was clearly devastated and was afraid to tell her parents. My daughter, who did well first semester, tried to comfort her but really didn’t know what to say. I’m dreading talking to her parents, whom I have gotten to know through the girls’ friendship; I know they will be crushed by the situation and her grades.</p>

<p>A couple of years ago another friend’s son flunked out of the same school after the first year. After much drifting, he has found a good place for himself, but it’s still painful for his mom to talk about it.</p>

<p>Both of these students are very bright and talented. Any ideas about how to talk to girlfriend’s parents about this? Just listen and sympathize?</p>

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<p>Yes I would just listen and sympathize. I would be careful of making any comparisons to other friend’s son - this young woman hasn’t flunked out, she just didn’t make the standards for the honors program and dorm. Just keep in mind that this mom will be worried and embarrassed, so just keep reminding her of all of her daughter’s good traits.</p>

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<p>I had a similar situation last year. Son’s best friend was tanking fast, and taking his scholarship with him. He is like another son to H and me, and we’re good friends with his mom. Basically, I just listened and commiserated. We both knew her son could do the work- he’s a bright kid. He just got involved in too much partying, too soon, lack of maturity, being on his own and not handling the independence. She’s a single mom, and was beside herself. H sat him down and they talked it out, tried to come up with a path, some goals. I think it helped him to talk to someone other than mom, who at this point was too distraught and upset to really have a constructive dialogue with her son.</p>

<p>I think the best thing is to be a friend, to give her a hug, tell her if she needs anything, you’re there. Maybe she would like for someone outside of the family, another adult mentor, to give her daughter some guidance or a little pep talk. </p>

<p>It’s not the end of the world. My friend’s son went back to school, dropped out of the fraternity he joined (his decision, although we were all very happy he did this!), and is doing great now.</p>

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<p>too much partying, not enough studying.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your utterly useless, presumptuous comment.</p>

<p>I would say “listen and sympathize” is the right idea. But be careful…right now, both the daughter and her parents probably have very distorted views of the others’ thoughts and actions. Which they might need right now, to support themselves emotionally. But if you take all of their perceptions of the other right now at face value, you are likely to have your judgment of and possibly your feelings about the parties involved in this colored by views that aren’t the full story or even necessarily accurate, even if the speaker(s) thinks they are.</p>

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<p>Sometimes it’s too much partying, but often it’s undiagnosed LDs, or ADHD or just not knowing how to study for college structured courses, or signing up for courses that are over your head, or that aren’t suited for you, or an inadequate high school education. Has your daughter talked to the friend?</p>

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<p>jessie, thanks for your advice and recognizing the previous comment as presumptuous. The friend is not at all a partier, not into drinking/drugs and at this point can take or leave the guys. I think her issue has more to do with liking to do other things more than studying…she’s a fine athlete (though not doing college sports), talented musician (piano and vocal), a gifted artist, and likes to crochet. From what my D tells me, friend spent her time doing anime, making Christmas gifts, and with online social networking (keeping in touch with my D regularly) and games. Somehow studying and even assignments didn’t get done.</p>

<p>And mathmom, I think there may be some attention issue. My D has ADHD and friend’s brother has also been diagnosed (and in fact the other friend’s son mentioned in my original post was diagnosed in college just before he dropped out) so I’m aware of some of what might indicate it. But I will do my listening and sympathizing without mentioning that and hope they will figure out to look into it.</p>

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<p>How did so many of get through with undiagnosed ADD, ADHD or whatever??
Is this now an epidemic of disease or excuses? I think you look under the ADHD and many times you find computer goofing off addiction (CGOA). Games, MYspace, texting, discussion boards. All massive time sucks we did not have in the old days. We just wasted time snoozing, going for hour coffee breaks, and reading everything else but our textbooks.</p>

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<p>^^^In my day, we whittled away hours playing backgammon, and its cruel cousin, acey deecey (sp?).</p>

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<p>Yes, for some the GO games lasted all day and night. Never got into that but we did play Risk almost every Saturday night during the winter before heading out on the town.</p>

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<p>Sometimes it is due to their major. My niece is very bright and got straight As in high school. She is in engineering at Penn State and had a TERRIBLE GPA first semester freshman year (last year). Her parents were shocked. The courses were really, really tough and she was in the process of adjusting to all the freedoms of college life. She considered changing her major, but stuck with it and did a lot better second semester and first semester this year. Her grades are still not representative of what she COULD do, but she is sorting it out slowly but surely. </p>

<p>Listen and be supportive, but also know that there are LOTS of freshmen who tank first semester. You don’t see it as much on this forum, of course, but your friend should not feel that her child is a disaster.</p>

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<p>I would think it would be helpful to the parents to realize their DD is not the only one, that this stuff happens, that the DD may or may not be in the right place, may not be ready for university, may not be in the right situation, but that does not mean she is a failure, not every kid will roll out of HS with a 4.0 college experience and will not feel all the joy and enthusiasm that we see expressed here on this board.</p>

<p>Every one wants to share happy stories (think Christmas letters) but people are (rightfully) less sharing of the bumps of life. I have a friend who just found out her son was arrested at college- she is not going to be sharing that story around town, but it happens.</p>

<p>So, help your friend by helping her to see that this may mean a change in program (time off from school, take a term off, change of study habits, change of major, etc), but it is not the end of the world, it may be a time to refocuus on what is best for the girl.</p>

<p>It is difficult to hear every one’s “university life is wonderful” stories when it is not wonderful for your child. But, it is still normal for a lot of kids, and many kids with wonderful stories are also experiencing issues & problems & frustrations. One of my D’s had a textbook wonderful, Christmas letter perfect braggable first year, yet she was unhappy all year due to a bad roommate situation and being far from her BF and HS friends. So, just because we hear good things does not mean that every kid, even the successful ones, are not experiencing many bumps in the road!</p>

<p>One of my D’s hit some bumps near the end of her time at university and I wish I had had a better perspective at an earlier time to dig deeper and figure out how to help her find the right situation for her. It all worked out, but it was painful at times. I could not see beyond “you gradaute HS, go to college for 4 years, get a degree, and go do life.” My D had some issues- unhappy with the major, unhappy with friends, etc that we MIGHT have been able to address less painfully if we’d seen them sooner!</p>

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<p>This is also a good cautionary tale (with my apologies to the OP, for using this as a lesson) about accepting a merit scholarship that requires you to maintain a 3.5 (3.75? 3.3?) g.p.a. I think some colleges COUNT on having many of the original recipients lose their scholarships, so they can use that money the following year to lure in the next batch. :frowning: If I remember correctly, my son was offered an engineering scholarship that required a 3.75 to renew. (He didn’t like the school much; and there was no way I would have let him accept that one.) Too much stress for that difficult first semester transition.</p>

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<p>It seems really unusual for someone to lose scholarship/housing etc after one semester. Usually, its based on the academic year outcome, not one semester. Theres always an appeal process as well. I would bet theres more to this story that you or your D isnt being told by her friend.</p>

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<p>I agree it seems weird to not have a probation period to raise the grades. Both of my sons are on scholarships with different policies. One has a 1 year probation period to get the grade up and the other has one semester. Fortunately we didn’t go on probation but to just get dropped after one semester shows a cruel school IMHO. Both of sons scholarships require a 3.0 which is very manageable.</p>

<p>I also agree with anxious. Sons were offered full ride at a nice public University but the scholarship was also a 3.7. My sons are in engineering so I very heavily advised against that. whew</p>

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<p>Don’t make any assumptions. There could be any number of things going on in that student’s life. Best not to bring it up.</p>

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<p>D’s friend’s honors program requires a 3.5 to stay in honors housing. Students can be put on probation if they don’t achieve this, if there is a likelihood they can raise it above 3.5 the following semester. In friend’s case, this is virtually mathematically impossible. We know these conditions are true because D also went through the same application/interview process and the honors advisors were pretty clear that this is what they expected.</p>

<p>Re: the AD(H)D…smart kids without the hyperactivity (who tend to be girls) can be hard to diagnose, even throughout high school, especially if there is no comorbid learning disability. They can hyperfocus on videogames or even a creative writing assignment if highly motivated, and do well. It seems hard to understand how it can be missed for so long,given my own D’s experience, but even adults can be diagnosed and are helped by therapy/meds.</p>

<p>D’s friend is in a tough major–engineering–but should have been able to do reasonably well given a sound HS background and a real desire to reach that goal. During high school, she did better each year…perhaps that will happen in college too…and she will have an experience like MOWC’s niece.</p>

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<p>First semester at many colleges can be an eye opener for just about any freshman whether they party or not. Let’s face it, for most bright kids, High School isn’t all that challenging and just doesn’t do a very good job of teaching good study habits. Most of these kids can do their H.S. homework on the couch while watching t.v., texting their buddies, cell phone in ear and surfing the web all at the same time and still get A’s. College is when the rubber hits the pavement. My first semester at college way back in the dark ages was a rude awakening for me. I was happy to get a 2.5, and I didn’t party that much :slight_smile: I have to agree with Anxiousmom that the high GPA requirements for some scholarships, honor dorms, majors, etc is just too much. Our DS has a 3.44 cum GPA and is on probation for his math scholarship because his math GPA (3.15) doesn’t meet the school’s 3.4 requirement for sophomores That GPA requirement goes up to 3.5 his Jr year! On top of that, he skipped all college level Calculus because of his H.S. AP classes. His first college level math class as a freshman was Differential Equations! Is anyone surprised that he struggled? Maintaining a 3.0 to keep a scholarship is reasonable to me, but anything higher is too much IMO. What incentive is there to major in a difficult field (i.e. Engineering) if the GPA requirement to keep the scholarship is so high? I am certain that the college (mine did) has resources to help the student improve student habits, concentrate better, tutors, etc. She will have to grunt her way through this problem and will no doubt make it through enlightened and better off for the experience.</p>

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<p>I agree that for alot of these kids that HS was easy to get good grades. My S who has to maintain a certain grade average (not sure what) to retain his scholarship has had to learn to really manage his time well and I know he’s had a couple of bumps, learning to live away, working two jobs, he also performs and sometimes does laundry. He also joined a fraternity. It’s really scary when you think about it, he can’t afford to fall down at all.</p>