Tamir Rice: any chance of an indictment on this one?

Parent Cafe
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<p>I’m not sure your figure is correct. But even so, it’s a relatively safe time to be a police officer.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-americas-police/2014/12/05/35b1af44-7bcd-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-americas-police/2014/12/05/35b1af44-7bcd-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I have 2 (white) coworkers, each of whom have high school age boys. “K” lives in a pleasant middle to upper middle class suburb. “L” is married to a black man, her children look fully black and she lives in a more diverse area. </p>

<p>Some time ago, K was recounting how her kids’ school was playing some kind of gotcha game where you’d hit people with a water gun, laughing about how her son and his friends were sneaking around the neighborhood, hiding in bushes, popping out unexpectedly to ambush their friends, etc. </p>

<p>L very quietly said that she couldn’t allow her son to play such a game. She couldn’t take the chance of letting her black son play a game where he had a water gun, was hiding in bushes, etc. - for fear that someone would call the cops, assume it was someone up to no good and arrest or shoot him. It was quite a sobering realization that the rules were indeed different, and K took it to heart. </p>

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<p>There is a difference that is unfair to minorities and we need to acknowledge that. There have been positive suggestions on both these thread- for example crimes involving police need a separate prosecutor to present to the GJ one that has no ties to the police community. The suggestions of better training. We also need increased minority presence on the police force. If that means minoriites with minor records need to be cleared to be on the force we need to do that. </p>

<p>We also need to stop the so called war on drugs which unfairly is fought on young black males disproportionately.</p>

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<p>Another disturbing case. She was not shot, just beaten. Her crime - a partially unpaid traffic ticket. Cops not indicted but at least the police dept. fired them. The beating was caught on video. </p>

<p><a href=“Texas Grand Jury Clears Cops Caught on Camera Beating a Woman in Jail - For Harriet | Celebrating the Fullness of Black Womanhood”>http://www.forharriet.com/2014/12/texas-grand-jury-clears-cops-caught-on.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Concern about real-looking toy guns* has been around for decades – the “orange tip” law has been around since the early 1990s (although it may not be that effective). Some states have additional laws regarding what toy guns can look like.</p>

<p>*that look like [url=<a href=“http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2014/11/23/cleveland-gun.png?itok=ZvSs1Y-K]this[/url”>http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2014/11/23/cleveland-gun.png?itok=ZvSs1Y-K]this[/url</a>], not like [url=<a href=“http://www.hasbro.com/common/productimages//A55F6B635056900B102137B6772B1597/convertedeada54e082bf608938855541e7a2ee5398485722.jpg]this[/url”>http://www.hasbro.com/common/productimages//A55F6B635056900B102137B6772B1597/convertedeada54e082bf608938855541e7a2ee5398485722.jpg]this[/url</a>].</p>

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<p>It just seems like a never-ending highlight reel of poor police work. This just could have been handled in so many different ways, same with Eric Garner, same with Kajieme Powell. There are white victims too, frequently mentally ill, another marginalized group.</p>

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<p>Mentally ill AND black-- forget it, he’s a dead man.</p>

<p><a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube;

<p>Whatever happened to talking someone down? Why are guns the first, last and only resort? And whoever thought that screaming at the mentally ill (or, really, anyone) was a way to defuse a situation?</p>

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<p>I grew up in what was a crime-ridden working-class NYC neighborhood in the 1980’s. A few childhood friends had realistic looking battery powered Uzi water guns and were playing with us out on a public sidewalks. </p>

<p>Only thing the cops did when they saw us was to advise us to confine our playing to the public parks and not out on the public sidewalks. Other than remarking how realistic the Uzi looked in size and shape, the cops weren’t acting as if they feared us. If anything, the tone was friendly like a gentle older brother gently giving advice to younger siblings or other kids. Granted, our group was mostly Hispanic kids who could pass as White and a small Asian-American kid…me. </p>

<p>No one at the time would have expected the cops to start shooting a couple of seconds after arriving without ascertaining the situation in a cool calm professional manner. </p>

<p>Incidentally, from some Cleveland area news reports, it seems the shooter’s partner also has had a history of excess force and unprofessional conduct as well. </p>

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<p>According to some local news reports, the two cops also failed to follow their commander’s explicit instructions to NOT patrol the internal stairwells of that particular project due to lighting and other issues. They were only supposed to patrol the lobby and the external perimeter of the building in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn. </p>

<p>To worsen matters, while they were texting the union rep, they failed to respond to communication requests from their commander and paramedics about the shot…and didn’t call in the fact they shot a man who needed medical attention for 6.5 minutes. </p>

<p><a href=“EXCLUSIVE: Rookie NYPD officer who shot Akai Gurley in Brooklyn stairwell was texting union rep as victim lay dying – New York Daily News”>http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/exclusive-texted-union-rep-akai-gurley-lay-dying-article-1.2034219&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I am confused why caller even called 911 at all.</p>

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<p>Pizzagirl - my kids played that game all the time on our street. It wasn’t cops and robbers but they, with the neighbors, called it “the gun game”. It was like laser tag except with cracked water guns, nerf guns etc. and they just called out when they “hit” someone. Nothing was actually shot is was all based on having a sight line.</p>

<p>I got a toy gun for Christmas when I was 5. It looked like a real gun from 100 years ago - steel with antler handle or something not black. I played with it all the time.</p>

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<p>We had wooden/metal carbines that looked exactly like the ones used by the Marines except smaller. And we had all these pellet guns, many air-pumped, that looked exactly like real guns.</p>

<p>I’ve said this before: the problem is the militarization of the police in light of terrorism so the first response to situations is not “how can we handle this as a community policing matter” but “how do we put down this threat?” You see that in the language used to explain the police actions: the officer perceived a threat, the officers responded to the perceived threat, etc.e</p>

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<p>We had some neighbor kids that did the water gun thing and my son went through a very short cap gun phase which I hated. But, we don’t live in an area where young teenagers are shooting each other in the streets every night, either. My kids were not allowed to wear red or blue to school for a while though because those are gang colors and a guy was shot dead near the high school for wearing a red t-shirt and tennis shoes. Some of you seem unfamiliar with the inner city and this gun looked real. Of course, people were scared if he was pointing it at them. That doesn’t excuse the cops. But its really not as baffling as some posters seem to think either. </p>

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<p>I think toy guns that are made to look like real guns are just stupid. Here they have been actually used to rob banks and convenience stores. A lot of us with sons have gone through the phase where we say “he can turn anything into a gun,” meaning a stick or a ruler or a tennis racquet. </p>

<p>My kids have grown up in safe neighborhoods but with schools that have a wide range of socioeconomic status and a high percentage of minority kids. There are some gangs and the kids are not allowed to wear caps to school. But I have never worried about my blond, blue-eyed offspring having to worry about their safety. A popular game around here is called “slip,” where the kids all meet at the high school after dark and then run through the neighborhoods, through people’s yards, trying to evade the captors who are in cars. Because the kids in the cars are looking for kids on foot, they tend to drive VERY slowly. In any case, I can’t imagine one of my kids being arrested for this–but I could see some of their classmates who don’t seem to “belong” in the neighborhood having a very different experience.</p>

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<p>FYI, I grew up in NYC during the crime-ridden '80s and still live there. </p>

<p>That’s one reason why I mentioned my childhood friends with the exceedingly realistic looking Uzi battery powered water guns. However, the cops called on us acted in a cool calm professional manner and acted as gentle older brothers, not acting as if they’re on seek and destroy mission. </p>

<p>And keep in mind NYC back in the '80s and early '90s was actually much more dangerous for the cops than it is now due to markedly declining crime rates and a greater coverage of cops compared to the '80s when personnel shortages due to city budget issues and high crime rates deterring NYPD candidates were serious issues. </p>

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<p>The park is West Cleveland gang hub and memorials to two dead cops are across the street, along with a billboard advertising for officer applicants. </p>

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<p>“A lot of us with sons have gone through the phase where we say “he can turn anything into a gun,” meaning a stick or a ruler or a tennis racquet.”</p>

<p>I was really against giving my son a toy gun but he turned everything into one anyone. A friend gave him a toy rifle when he about 6. It looked pretty real, too. I don’t recall what year they passed the laws about having an orange tip, etc. but his rifle definitely didn’t have that. </p>

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<p>Well now they can add another memorial . . .</p>

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<p>I agree that some kids can turn anything into a weapon, so why give them a facsimile?
They don’t need it to play.</p>

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<p>marie, so you think the two cops did the right thing? There was no other way they could have handled Tamir Rice than to blow him away literally two seconds after they arrived?</p>

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<p>Where did I say that? I didn’t. So far, it seems to me they shot very quickly but I wouldn’t normally expect an indictment because of the circumstances with the missing fake gun info and the plain fact that there’s rarely an indictment in a police use of lethal force case for any reason. But, we are kind of entering a new normal in public perception right now although reality hasn’t changed at all so it’s interesting. I was explaining why police would be on high alert in a high crime area where they arrested dozens of teenage gang members for shootings, burglaries, robberies, assaults, kidnappings, drug deals, and whatever the month before around the same park and the dispatcher sent them to a report of a “guy” with a gun. It was a high-profile gang and their activities in the neighborhood were referred to as a reign of terror. So, were cops nervous? I think probably yes. But is that criminal? Not usually. </p>