<p>wwelll yeah
6 hours to cornell, then 6 hours to dc vs just 8 hours to dc
heh</p>
<p>You know what? If I were applying to a school (like Chicago, for instance), I wouldn’t for a second even think of not revealing my race. All these calculations and schemes and paranoia over “outsmarting” the system to the point of outright lying are just too much for a simple southern gal like me.</p>
<p>Throw caution to the winds! Keep it real, and don’t make things too complicated for yourself; that’s all the advice I can offer. If I’m rejected, or have a disadvantage (which I probably do), because of my race or ethnicity, I wouldn’t want to go to that institution anyway. I’m proud of my heritage, believe it or not, and college apps aren’t going to change that one iota. I don’t care, really, if I might be sabotaging myself in the process, but I want to get in spite of all that, and not because I lied or “stretched the truth” or left out one stupid little line on my application. That’s just me, though.</p>
<p>EDIT: “Did you guys here of the amazing donation?”
Here? Here?! Wow, I’m an idiot and feel like gouging my eyes out… :P</p>
<p>Nice list, uber! I’m thinking of bringing:</p>
<p>-A fuzzy cuddly animal of some sort (the fake kind)
-Music (that’s a given)
-Tons of notebooks, etc. (obviously)
-Nail clipping weapon (I just realized this may actually come in handy, esp. since my fingernails tend to grow at a monstrously fast pace :))
-Cool dictionary (preferably a really old one, in a strange forgotten language)
-Laptop (Do you guys think this is a good idea? I mean, I don’t want to be too technology-dependent…)
-My violin (Probably not)
-Poisonous snakes (I hear those are illegal, though…)
-To be continued…</p>
<p>^ daenerys, you’re my hero! 
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<p>That’s not taking a stand. And no, changing your name to an African American name isn’t trying to be “judged on individual merit” - it’s called exploiting the system (not that the system is perfect, but that’s a whole other discussion). And even IF you change your name to something rather ambiguous, it’s NOT called TAKING A STAND. </p>
<p>I’m not sure what your definition of “taking a stand is” but mine falls along the lines of actively speaking/acting out against rules or regulations that you deem unfair. Essentially the whole point in “taking a stand” is to initiate change - not getting around the system so that you, as an individual, can have the “benefit”.</p>
<p>Look, if people want to change their name - fine, it’s their life, it’s their name, and it’s their dignity. However, don’t try and make that an act of something honorable (which would equating it to “taking a stand” in my book). It is essentially a self-degredation that the individual believes will get him/her into a “better” college - hardly a catalyst for change.</p>
<p>And your first statement about boycotting the system is absurd. Boycotting does not mean you try and play the system so that you can get into Harvard. Boycotting the system means, essentially, to not apply to colleges that practice AA and making it KNOWN to the other colleges that you’re doing it.</p>
<p>“mine falls along the lines of actively speaking/acting out against rules or regulations that you deem unfair.”</p>
<p>so, if actively speaking out is the ONLY way to stand up for a cause, answer me this:
–isn’t donating money to a candidate you believe in taking a stand?
–isn’t a sit-down strike a way to take a stand?
–isn’t skipping the “under god” part of the pledge of allegiance taking a stand, if you’re an athiest?</p>
<p>my point is that you don’t have to literally stand up and root for a cause in order to take a stand. there are other (more quiet and subtle) ways of standing up for a cause you believe in. if you disagree, fine. if an asian finds a way to avoid telling colleges about his or her race, and that person disagrees with racial AA, i believe that fits into the category of subtly taking a stand for a cause you believe in.</p>
<p>of course, such an action (an asian changing their last name from Xiong to Johnson) will have a positive side effect–helping that person with college admissions. well, so does TASP. but that’s not why you applied, right? you just thought it would be a good experience.</p>
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<p>Donating money to a candidate WOULD be taking an active action indirectly through the candidate who has the power to MAKE CHANGES HAPPEN. Does chaning your name indirectly endorse any positive action? I don’t think so. (more on this later)</p>
<p>Sit-down IS an active action - it works precisely because of that. People notice them, and they make it clear what they “stand” for. Does changing one’s name reflect that? I don’t think so.</p>
<p>And how on Earth is that contraditing my definition of “taking a stand”? You’re the one who’s imagining that I’m equating it with a literal “stand-up”. And I have NEVER said “speaking out is the ONLY way to stand up for a cause”. Heck, you even quoted my definition on the top of your post!</p>
<p>Skipping the “under God” part of the pledge isn’t really taking a stand in my view, unless you’re doing it conspicuosly. But for the sake of the argument, let’s say you go to a radical and prominent church meeting and when you’re pretty much the only one who’s talking (so they know you’re not saying the God part), say the pledge without the God part. Well then, in that hypothetical situation, you ARE taking a stand because you are “actively speaking/acting out against” something. Is changing your name actively doing anything but to cover up the fact you’re a certain race? I don’t think so. </p>
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<p>I NEVER said that taking a stand has to be literal.</p>
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<p>Okay, hypothetically let’s say I change my last name to Gonzales without anyone in the college KNOWING I am actually Asian and changed my last name to Gonzales “to take a stand” (that’s what you’re suggesting, right? Else the whole postive side-effect thing would be a moot point). Therefore, the colleges would only see me as another (most likely hispanic) applicant. Tell me how that’s considered even “subtly taking a stand”?</p>
<p>The key word is that NO ONE KNOWS I’m doing it. I’m not “standing up” for anything but the fact that I think college admissions is more important than my ethnic heritage or self-dignity. </p>
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<p>You know what my social studies teacher once told me about the first signs people show when they’re losing a debate? They insult others. Why I applied to TASP has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion; I wouldn’t have talked about the fact that you’re only in 8th grade and preparing for TASS/TASP as an argument for or against why I don’t think chaging someone’s name is taking a stand.</p>
<p>ad hominem. thank you, AP Language and Composition =D </p>
<p>haha, i’m not going to get involved in your heated debate, but changing your last name to “Johnson” or whatever you proposed isn’t taking a stand for so many reasons, the most glaring reason being that you’re NOT just “avoiding telling colleges about your race,” you’re outright lying and basically stating that you’re white or hispanic or black or whatever else you could imply through a last name. and logistics aside, i’m with daen on this and would never even consider the possibility of not revealing my heritage because i realize that it makes up a great deal of who i am. call me crazy, but i value other things more than college admissions and i don’t plan to sell my soul in order to “outsmart” the system. </p>
<p>ironically enough, the topic of my TASP seminar is “Race, Space, and the American Self.” </p>
<p>on a lighter and happier note, here’s my tentative list of stuff to bring!
-something soft and cuddly for the plane ride
-music! ipod! i can’t live without my ipod.
-my dad’s laptop if he lets me… since i have a tendency to do assignments at the very last minute [cough]
-sketchbook, binders and notebooks and the works
-a pie plate! tako and i already decided we’re going to bake, hehehe.
-camera! with a hefty memory card
-… i’ll have to think about this more… </p>
<p>i’m thinking about whether or not to bring all my oil paints and art stuff. on the one hand i would hate to go without it, but i doubt we’d have much leisure time to do extra stuff anyways, especially if there are TASPers around all the time. =]</p>
<p>From an economic viewpoint, changing your name could in fact be considered taking a stand (albeit a very subtle one)</p>
<p>If colleges become aware of this practice (which I’m certain they would be if it actually happened on a large enough scale… i still kind of think you’re kidding mj) they could no longer assume that one’s name relates to their race. With this assumption gone, colleges are at least forced to alter the way in which they gauge race. And because determining race involves so many practical difficulties (how would you ‘prove’ ethnicity? birthplace of ancestors? ‘i consider myself [a certain race] because’ essays? DNA tests? etc… it’s tricky) colleges might be forced to not consider race at all, thereby eliminating affirmative action and making ‘the stand’ worthwhile. </p>
<p>Of course, this relies on a lot of ifs (IF enough people did it for colleges to take the problem seriously; IF colleges couldn’t find out about the name change; IF they could not find a viable alternative for determining race - it’s tough but not impossible) </p>
<p>But in theory changing your name could be considered taking a stand. Obviously, a bigger stand would be actively campaigning against AA (which would probably take less effort than changing your name and does not force you to prostitute your heritage for a ‘ve-ri-tas’ stamped piece of paper ) </p>
<p>God i have to study for SAT IIs</p>
<p>Mintie …</p>
<p>sorry, i didn’t mean to insult you at all. i was just comparing two actions (applying for TASP and an asian changing his/her last name) which both have a positive side effect of looking good on a college application, even though that effect isn’t the main concern of the person taking that action.</p>
<p>–</p>
<p>"Is changing your name actively doing anything but to cover up the fact you’re a certain race? I don’t think so. "</p>
<p>i would disagree. let’s compare the topic at hand (protesting AA by changing one’s name) to pollution in a city. one resident picks up one piece of trash and throws it in the garbarge, but that isn’t very significant in the grand scheme of things. however, if that resident picks up a piece of trash and tells her neighbor about it, that person might do the same thing. he might tell two people to do the same thing, who in turn will tell a combined twelve people, and on and on until five hundred pieces of trash have been picked up all around the city.</p>
<p>the same concept applies when an asian changes their name from wang to smith. it might become a norm for asians to shield their ethnicity from colleges, and when that happens, the whole system will get messed up–that’s why i called it “boycotting” the system. adcoms will become aware of the new trend, and they will have no idea who’s who. so, until adcoms find a solution to the new problem, they will have to judge (asian) candidates on individual merit.</p>
<p>mj, there are reasonable senarios (if I tell everyone to pick up trash, maybe the city will be more clean) and there are things that are so improbable to happen as to be pretty much impossible (let’s get all the Asians to change their names so we can indirectly combat the system). Since we live in a world where (I hope) relatively few peope are so - shall I say interested? - in the strategic aspect of college admissions to change their names, your (and debaser’s) theory that these acts will amount to something that will cause positive change is relatively unlikely (as debaser speculated). </p>
<p>The far more likely senario is someone trying to take an “advantage” (yes, I BET getting that African American last name will get you into Harvard ;)) over people of their own race/ethnic group. Those people who go to such (in my humble opinion) extraordinary lengths to gain even the slightest edge will no doubt be unwilling to jeopardize their chances with the colleges of their dreams by rallying their friends to do the same. </p>
<p>The point is, the people who are willing to do some underhand thing like changing their names for the sole purpose of having a better shot at colleges most likely aren’t changing their names so they can start a revolution.</p>
<p>Plus, no matter the semantics, doing that is just overboard. I would like to be judged based on merit too - but I’d like to go to my dream school as me, with my Asian name, and not as Niki Gonzales (though that’s a cool name too…)</p>
<p>when it comes down to it, is attempting to gain a competitive edge a bad thing? college admissions is basically capitalism on a smaller scale, so the only way to get into Harvard is to gain a competitive edge, no matter how you go about doing so. a 4.0 gpa and 2100 sat aren’t good enough these days, so i suppose going through the hassle of changing your name to gonzales is the same as going through the hassle of pushing yourself to do tons of homework as well as ECs each night.</p>
<p>anyways, let’s just agree to disagree. :P</p>
<p>But then we have to think of opportunity cost: is it worth sacrificing such morals even though it may well end up changing the system? Because whether or not it’s taken into consideration, changing your name to reflect a different ethnicity is dishonest. It’s blatant lying. And yes, it will probably give you a boost on your application - so how is that any different than making up an EC or an award? </p>
<p>You may argue that comparing ethnicity to ECs/awards is like comparing apples to oranges, but honestly they both have a place in college admissions, whether you like it or not. </p>
<p>The reason why things like Affirmative Action were implemented in the first place is to make up for the general trend of disadvantages minorities face compared to the majority caucasian race. I don’t like the concept of Affirmative Action, personally, however I believe that it is necessary in order to have a level playing field. There will always be exceptions, of course, but I believe that in general minorities have a much harder time than the majority caucasian race, and Affirmative Action seeks to fix that.</p>
<p>Let’s say we all change our names to reflect African-American backgrounds. So how can colleges tell who is truly African-American and who is not? They can’t. Great! you may say. But if you have had opportunities and privileges that true African-Americans have not had, then you are unfairly taking advantage of the system. You may get the spot that really deserves to go to another because you lied.</p>
<p>And even if you are not doing it to get a boost on your application, but rather to cover up, as you say, the fact that you are Asian, it still undermines the purpose of diversity. Ah, yes the D-word. While we may hate it at times, it’s necessary in our education system to level out the playing field.</p>
<p>The problem with a system that judges candidates on individual merit is that you would probably end up with entirely caucasian (or perhaps Asian, if we want to discuss a caucasian vs. Asian battle) universities. I’m not implying that one race is better than the other (far from that, in fact, I believe what race you are born to has no implications on your abilities) but I’m speaking from general trends. Minorities do tend to have it off worse, and it’s a fact that less blacks go to college, not because they’re “stupid,” but because the circumstances in which they live make it much more difficult.</p>
<p>So even if changing your last name to reflect a different ethnicity is “taking a stand” (I have to agree with Mintie here; I don’t think it’s much of a stand), it’s not something worth taking a stand for. Sure, the idea of individual merit sounds great in theory, but in reality it’s not going to work. It will simply oppress minorities. We may talk about doing away with Affirmative Action, but it is, in ways, necessary to some degree. We are, after all, living in the “land of opportunity.”</p>
<p>“The problem with a system that judges candidates on individual merit is that you would probably end up with entirely caucasian (or perhaps Asian, if we want to discuss a caucasian vs. Asian battle) universities.”</p>
<p>i would replace the word “entirely” with the word “disproportionately”.</p>
<p>–</p>
<p>also, is changing your last name to a neutral “Johnson” really lying, or immoral? yes, i could see how you could consider it immoral if the name was changed to Gonzales, because that would intentionally mislead the adcom to believe that you are Hispanic. however, the last name Johnson could refer to any race, including asian. if my name was sarah johnson, and i didn’t check off an ethnicity, for all the adcoms know, i could be gray. my hope would be, by changing my name and not checking my ethnicity, that adcoms would judge me on my merit.</p>
<p>–</p>
<p>when it comes to AA, here’s how i think it should go: socio-economic AA for all low-income applicants, regardless of race. and we would also have a subcategory of AA, called MAA, for minorities living in violent inner-city areas. that way, URMs who are well off (most URMs are not lower class, i believe around 2/3rds of black families are middle class or above) are not given an AA advantage.</p>
<p>
my money’s on the asians
we just cant compete</p>
<p>Sorry, yes, disproportionately is the word.</p>
<p>And yes, I believe that changing your last name to a neutral “Johnson” IS lying, because you’re doing it for the purpose of boosting your chances in college admissions. You are essentially undermining your own race.</p>
<p>Say you have two people who are basically equal in terms of stats, ECs, essays, etc, except one has better rec letters (Person B). Both are Asian. Person A changes his/her last name to “Johnson.” Colleges, under normal circumstances, would see both as “stereotypical Asians.” However, because one is considered Asian (Person B) and one is considered “neutral” (Person A), colleges decide they don’t want the stereotypical Asian and take the neutral one instead, even though Person B had better rec letters and thus was a better candidate.</p>
<p>I know it’s not as simple as that ^^ but I hope the message is clear. You’re gaining an advantage over others that are the same race as you, and you’re doing it because you know that. That’s why I consider it dishonest.</p>
<p>And honestly, if you’re desperate enough to do that, well, I don’t know what to say.</p>
<p>gaining an advantage is what college admissions is all about … this particular debate is a question of “where do you draw the line?”. it could go on forever, but i partially agree with you, so let’s just stop. 
we kind of hijacked the thread, anyways.</p>
<p>Mintie, question: how did you find that post of mine, anyways? reading through my post history trying to find something substandard? lol. if so, i don’t blame you, i would be suspicious of an 8th grader on CC if i were you, too.</p>
<p>Indeed. I also don’t particularly want to delve into Affirmative Action; that’s a tricky subject.</p>
<p>But seriously, where do we draw the line? </p>
<p>College admissions these days :(</p>
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<p>I believe that should be replaced with “textureless math grind”. Shows how much Asians OWN - idiots are forced to get creative with their racial slurs. XD</p>
<p>It really comes down to what kind of a person you want to be. I don’t know if there is anything tangibly rewarding about doing the “right” thing, but you know, it’s so elegant to see an act of pure humility - it gives you so much hope about humanity and all that we can achieve. I hope I can achieve that in my life, because that is what I admire most in others.</p>
<p>And I agree with tako; if you really think it’s worth it - go and sell your soul. XD (I kid… I kid… it’s just selling your name and associated dignity). </p>
<p>…Argh, I cross post all the time… </p>
<p>…am I being too harsh? Meh. :P</p>
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<p>Yes, I go and stalk people’s post history so I can go and rant about all their failures in front of others. Jeez…</p>
<p>Ahh, pressed submit too fast at the wrong time. Anyways - I was actually doing a post search, and came across your post. Satisfy your curiosity?</p>
<p>I’m not reading all these posts. You all seem to have gotten into some debate or something and I’m not in the mood for that. All I’m gonna say is I HATE CELL PHONE COMPANIES!!!</p>