Teachers start at $50,000 in New Jersey

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<p>While I can recognize just about every conversation on this board as having a basis in reality where I taught, Tom1944’s posting jumped out at me as “Smart.”
As Deep Throat said (in the Watergate movie, it was actually a screenwritten line not from the book): “Follow the Money…” Then you’ll understand.</p>

<p>That, and sex…or as the professors say, “gender.”</p>

<p>Historically, teachers and nurses were the jobs available to women whose position in society did not enable them to argue well for higher wages. In the l9th century, the degree of personal control by school boards was extraordinary to our ears: they couldn’t be married or pregnant. (Why? Less devoted to their work? Is it a priesthood? To ensure they’d always be young and without spokespersons in the form of trheir husbands to advocate for better salaries? I don’t know but I wonder.) So enter the spinster schoolmarm in the one-room schoolhouse.</p>

<p>Job conditions that upset people on the board here should not be resented.
Whether it’s a half hour or 50 minute lunch, it was all hard-won by collective bargaining by a union for one group contract, with other things given up in return. Most people understand that having 30 minutes to eat and hit the bathroom improves one’s ability to work well. When you see teachers walk into a faculty room for their 30 minute brown bag lunch, recognize that at some point their right to a “duty-free lunch period” was won at the cost of some other thing they might have also wanted but was deemed less important to them by the teacher membership. It’s all hammered out in collective bargaining, but anything decent or humane in the teacher’s day probably came from a union lawyer arm-wrestling the school board lawyer at contract negotiation time (“collective bargaining”).</p>

<p>The push for tenure by teachers unions was largely in reponse to the habits of school board members to oust a teacher so that his relative could assume her job.That, plus persecution for political views held, as described in the current article about tenured science teachers having the nerve to defy the board over how to teach Creationism. To achieve tenure, other rewards went by the wayside.
It’s arm-wrestling, again.</p>

<p>For trends re: whether we should all get off of “tenure” as a sacred cow, I’d be watching the Charter School Movement. One of the first things they did was eliminate tenure and hire non-union teachers, in NY State anyway. They are free to hire and fire at will. WHile some can produce creative results, I’ll be watching to see whether in fact they have a revolving door of newbie teachers. As soon as someone gets five years of experrience, she’s too experienced to afford to keep. So then begins the squeeze-play to get them to resign; if they won’t, harass them during performance evaluations and find reasons to fire good teachers with five years’ experience at the Charter School. So choose your poison: a tearful new teacher who cannot handle the innately stressful world that is Children, or a wizzened and burned out tenured veteraqn. Neither is a very good teacher. One system costs less than the other, however. Many new teachers begin at Charter Schools where the salary is almost comparable to publics, but there is no tenure. At that moment in their nascent career, they don’t care about tenure.</p>

<p>Maybe if we’d internalize what we already know, that we’re leaving behind a manufacturing society and entering something else (information age?), we’ll understand that a muscled-but-illiterate h.s. graduate can produce NOTHING for our country. That was not true in the l9th century when the public school teaching profession was established. </p>

<p>Free market is an interesting lens to look at all of this. “Tom1944” should go to the head of the class…but wait, we’re teaching at centers, so I guess, “Go to the middle of the room!” :)</p>

<p>It wasn’t just the 19th century - my mother-in-law had to remain engaged and could not get married for several years until she got tenure, in the 1940’s, because a married teacher who did not have tenure would have to leave. And when she was pregnant, she had to leave when she started to “show”. It’s kind of hard to believe this was happening a little more than 50 years ago.</p>

<p>^^Wow! That is amazing! Today the teachers work so close to their due dates, I’m waiting for some kid to get a real firsthand experience as an EMT for his teacher.</p>

<p>Haha. When my daughter was in 5th grade, the gifted class put on a play. Their teacher was about to have a baby any day, and the premise of the play was that a class’s teacher went on maternity leave and they got Shakespeare for their substitute, or something like that. They wrote the play, I think. Everyone was surprised the teacher held on until after the performance!</p>

<p>My daughter hasn’t had a teacher who was pregnant- but I do know what you are talking about.
I expect that those teachers who worked until their last month were committed professional teachers, who realized that their classroom had a huge impact on these kids, and they didn’t want to leave them in the hands of “subs”, until they absolutely had to.
As opposed to my daughters 5th grade teacher, who left the classroom a few weeks after the start of the school year, to spend time with her mother who was ill ( teacher was in her late 50’s, so I expect mom was equally advanced in age :wink: )
Thats fine, we all have our priorities, except she wouldn’t take a permanent leave, so that another teacher could be hired, and subs rotated through her classroom until her mother passed away Five years later.</p>

<p>Many careers actually demand you work as much as possible before taking maternity leave. I had to go on bedrest & lost my job over it because I was gone longer than six weeks, I also remember my mother in law telling me about a woman who drove herself to the hospital when she was in labor ( implying I should be doing the same thing and not be bothering the father), and other women who had 6 weeks off max, so they waited until as long as possible to leave work before the birth in order to maximize time with the baby.</p>

<p>I think our district also let fathers take unpaid leave if they wanted to be home with their wives and new babies. Most didn’t but one did.</p>

<p>I think my work allows some kind of “daddy leave” as well… but I’m not really sure how it works.</p>

<p>usually this arguement really boils down to unions. It will always come about that the “unions” protect poor workers… well the unions in education protect the good and great workers too! Someone cited the darwin issue and the ability to speak up and say no! </p>

<p>Great teachers support the their unions for a simple reason, all they have to do is look around and see that their greatness is a matter of opinion in many cases… Yes, some should be paid more than others, but that’s a worthwhile trade off to have some security from people who would have absolutely no problem cutting them loose for a number of personal reasons from not being christain enough, muslim enough, democrat enough, republican enough… and so on… </p>

<p>The one teacher we had the most stress with, where we met with him and the principal, just prior to meeting with the school board, was “loved” by 90% of the people out there… just not us… Should I have had the power to fire this guy? We thought he was crap, a whole lotta others didn’t…</p>

<p>That is what I meant by one person’s bad teacher is somebody else’s great educator. Heck my wife even had one complain to the district that she didn’t smile enough at her child and should be terminated? cause she wasn’t happy enough for her child? Well, it the little guy would have actually done his work rather than stuff it in his desk, maybe she would smile a bit more… but that’s not the real problem is it?</p>

<p>So, when you folks sit there and complain about some teachers all the while saying how you support the good ones. ARE you REALLY sure the one you don’t like is bad? Everybody has a bad day, week and yes, sometimes a year.
Maybe I’m not so harsh because sometimes great teachers and certain people just don’t mix… should we fire somebody because you don’t like them? What if you’re wrong? Are you that ready to ruin somebody? I know some folks are, but I would hope they don’t post here.</p>

<p>And just a note - not all states have tenure. In Texas, we are not allowed to strike, unions are voluntary, and there is no tenure. We’re on three-year contracts in my district. There is a small step increase for each year of experience, although this is not guaranteed. As I said, with 14 years experience (beginning my 15th year in the district), I make exactly $5000 a year more than a beginning teacher.</p>