Teachers start at $50,000 in New Jersey

Parent Cafe
101

<p>I am sure that this is common, but in our school district, the actual hours with elementary kids are 9-3, and there is also a 50 minute lunch plus a 50 minute “prep” where your class goes to their special (P.E., art, music, Spanish or Computer/library). So in that context, yes, it is not bad.</p>

<p>I have worked in many jobs, and on a daily basis, they were all more stressful than the school. I am sorry for the teachers who are stressed.</p>

<p>Once again, I am not disparaging teachers as a community, but I will repeat, that our school has their fair share of lousy teachers that we cannot get rid of.</p>

102

<p>I’m there at 7, we pick up kids from the cafeteria at 7:30, instruction starts at 7:45 and ends at 2:45. We have, officially 30-minutes of dutyfree lunch. that 30minutes starts as you head through the lunch line, and ends as you pick up your kids. (Oops, jose gets a bloody nose, sally drops her lunch tray, childprotective services calls and you need to respond, pick up your mail, - you are LUCKY to get 15-minutes to choke down a Powerbar.) You have 1 45-minute “planning period”, which again is dimiminished by all sorts of things, including meetings, emergencies. Traffic-duty is until 3:05 p.m., then you have after-school tutoring until 4:00p.m. (M,W) - on the days that your don’t have ARD or Impact meetings, staff meetings and committee meetings (T), and grade-level team meetings (TH’s). So at 4:00 p.m. or later, you start working on lesson plans and prep, grading, tons of paperwork. I try to leave by 4:30 or 5:00. I’ve literally had 15 minutes of time sitting on my butt doing nothing (that’s the “choking down a powerbar”) time, between 7 a.m. and 4:30 or 5:00 p.m.<br>
I know there are poor teachers out there, but many of us are working incredibly hard in incredibly taxing situations with many stresses - including standardized tests (yes, 3x a year for kindergarten - don’t get me started), and scrutiny by the press and media. How many of you have to read letters to the editor complaining about how you (“you” being “all teachers” do your job and how your low expectations are the root of the educational system’s failures???). It’s hard not to get discouraged.</p>

<p>P.S. Choc - it looks like our instuctional day is an hour longer, and our lunch is 20 minutes shorter, allowing for 80 minutes more of instruction. I guess teacher’s do have it easier where you live!</p>

103

<p>I’m reading this with great interest. As many of you know, Zoosergirl is a bio major who has dreamed of being a high school bio teacher for years. She has her first student teaching field thingy next semester and I am curious to see how she will do in a high school, six weeks after her 18th birthday and being tiny.</p>

104

<p>northeastmom- I was trying to make the point that every job has its good and bad. I think those in sales or any job in the private sector deserve all the good things that come their way. Benefits for public employees are good but I know many private sector workers with better- I also know some with pay and benefits that are not as good-my point is it is fine to complain about poor teachers- they should be reported and the principal should do the required work to fix the performance or have the teacher removed- it can be done. But to complain about pay and benefits because they may be better than some in the private sector- well become a teacher if it is so great.</p>

105

<p>Wow, I thought I was a pretty lonely voice on this forum defending educators, but WoW… Many of you have described to a “T” an average day and an average classroom. I also think you’ll never get your point across to some here as they only see you working when you’re in front of the class. So when the kids are there 9-3 your working, the rest of the time they think you’re screwing off…</p>

<p>Most don’t know the planning that goes into that 9-3… it’s not improvisation, it’s planned lesson activities… then dealing with plan changes for positive and negative reasons. </p>

<p>No one works harder than my wife at her “art” (educating), but what I do see from here is alot of you work just as hard… Thank you… It helps validate my statement about good and great teachers along the way in my kids lives. There are literally dozens of educators, aides, coaches and staff that have helped my kids be the successful people they are on track to be. </p>

<p>thanks for chiming in, usually it’s just me…</p>

106

<p>That’s just ridiculous. Once again, you are speaking about a personal experience. No-one here is saying all or even most teachers are poor educators. We are all speaking about what we have experienced. </p>

<p>There is no need to defend educators. You can only speak for your own experience. Just as I am.</p>

<p>There are plenty of mediocre teachers, and awful ones. Just like there are bad doctors, unscrupulous lawyers etc. But go ahead.</p>

107

<p>I do feel the need to defend teachers, especially when you make statements like this

I don’t know about the “many” who only work 8-3. As I said above, I work 7-4:30 or 5, and only get about 15minutes of down time. Most of the teachers at my elementary school also work at least that long (plus tutor “Saturday school”) Stress levels are incredibly high, due to high demands, long hours, tons of paperwork and committee work, and the stress of frequent high-stakes testing. Please don’t sit there and tell me how easy and stress-free my job is!</p>

108

<p>But anxiousmom, I am not telling you how stress-free your job is. How did you hear that? Even what you quoted does not reflect that. Sorry you took it that way. </p>

<p>I said that everything else I have done was more stressful. You see the difference I hope?</p>

<p>It surely depends on the environment in which you teach, and I am sure schools are VERY different from each other.</p>

109

<p>Really, my only problem is with how many awful teachers there are. And how little can be done about it.</p>

<p>I still say that many teachers are not getting what they deserve, as far as how wonderful they are.</p>

110

<p>chocoholic - If everything else you have done is more stressful, does that mean you have been a teacher in a classroom and therefore have the experience to compare a teaching job with the other jobs you have held? If you have, what was your experience as a teacher like?</p>

111

<p>Babar, the answer is yes. Go back and read my posts in this thread.</p>

<p>These are all opinions depending on individual experiences. Will no teacher that claims to be a great, amazing, caring, hard-working teacher admit that there are many bad teachers in their school? Because in every workplace, whether it be a bank, retail, brokerage house, hospital, there are slackers and moochers and those who plain don’t care.</p>

112

<p>anxiousmom, I know how stressful the job is because my mother was a teacher. I do know what chocoholic is talking about. I would think that most of us have seen a few bad teachers. These are teachers who are reading a newspaper, shopping on ebay fairly regularly, talking with their class about anything other than the subject they are paid to teach. We had one who had no control of her classroom and she would cry in front of her students. I felt very sorry for the last teacher I mentioned. Then there are teachers that go beyond the call of duty. I have seen some giving a ride home to one of their elementary school students. Frankly, in today’s world it could be seen as inappropriate rather than extemely kind. I wouldn’t do it, but this teacher has done this. My own son became ill on an overnight class trip, and I cannot tell you how well they cared for him. I have seen teachers actually buy several thousand dollars in textbooks so they could have the classroom that they want. I have seen teachers buy little gift items for struggling elementary school kids as motivation. Teachers have voluntarily stayed as long as an hour after school to help reteach my kids on occasion, when they could have been tutoring someone who was paying them afterschool. So there are good and bad out there, and these are some of the extremes in our middle class neighborhood. This applies to all professions, IMO.</p>

113

<p>Chocoholic - Sorry for missing that post where you referred to having taught. If it is such a stress-free, secure job, why did you leave it? I am not trying to bait you or be rude. I just wonder, because some people seem to believe that it’s a relatively easy job with lots of vacation and other perks.</p>

114

<p>On the whole I think we all value the education and experience of the professionals that we interact with while raising our children.</p>

<p>But unlike my mothers generation when the child manuals were Dr Spock who found it pretty lonely on the child development shelf, by the time I had my first there were whole bookstores ( And in Ballard!) devoted to parenting advice.
Also unlike my mothers generation we are pretty involved with our kids daily lives right through graduation from college, so it isn’t unusual to expect people on a college opinion/reference website, to have closely held opinions depending on their own families experience with those professionals that have crossed our path.</p>

<p>Since most people have some experience in the public education system, either as a student or as the parent of one, thats what we keep coming back to in discussion.</p>

<p>Quality of other public servants work ( except for politicians) :wink: isn’t as heated because how often are we going to have need for the services of a firefighter , or a police officer? We have opinions about social workers and DSHS in general, but teachers are still the workers we have the most contact with.</p>

<p>Articles like this show me that districts vary all over the country- and in Texas even more than most places
[Teachers</a> say HISD paperwork prevents real work | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle](<a href=“http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5293312.html]Teachers”>http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5293312.html)</p>

<p>Some of the teachers in my daughters previous school, didn’t have a written lesson plan for the year, let alone for every week. (which was tragic when a teacher was on leave for months at a time)Principals dont turn in their budgets on time making the entire district late to submit requests to the state ( and costing them grant money)</p>

<p>Principals can have much to do with attitude at the school, not only with students, but with teachers. IF there is high principal turnover &/or if the principal doesn’t show leadership, the climate is not fun for either teachers or parents.
In my daughters former school, I did know several very strong teachers who behaved professionally, and were interested in furthering their profession. Unfortunately, for the most part, my D didn’t actually * have* those teachers in the classroom.
Some are no longer there, and some are no longer even in the district.</p>

<p>I can acknowledge that some teachers deserve more respect, more pay and more support. Certainly, her current school is weighted as far as I can tell, with some very strong hardworking professionals who do a difficult job.</p>

<p>But… the experience I had in her previous school, where I quit my job so that I could spend that time in the building during school hours as a volunteer in the classrooms, and after school hours as part of the Parent Group that organized and ran special programs, left a really bad taste in my mouth.</p>

<p>When I heard teachers talk about their summer trips ( some traveled extensively every year & no it wasn’t on their spouses dime, they were all divorced with teen age kids), I was envious because we are lucky if we get to go car camping locally ( This summer we didn’t)</p>

<p>When I hear from teachers, that parents aren’t doing enough, that we need to get our employers to underwrite their pet projects, when some of the projects involve things like all new video cameras and newer computers, when the ones that they have in the building, are a heck of a lot newer than anything the parents have at home, it makes me wonder what their reality is, that they think that parents who make $10-$20 an hour( without medical ins.) are going to have a lot of impetus to get the teachers their wish list, especially without a detailed plan as to what they are doing to do with it.</p>

<p>The focus can really be shifted away from the kids, and I beleive that every decision in a building or district needs to reflect how it will affect the students.</p>

115

<p>We all know that there are some bad teachers. For me, that is an even better argument for higher pay for teachers overall. Teaching now attracts the bottom third of college graduates. Again, I think we have to ask ourselves what it would take to attract students from the top two thirds, and whether we are willing to pay it. No one will ever go into teaching to get rich, but we live in a society where salary is a reflection and a measure of how much we value people. As standardized test-driven classrooms and scripted curricula make teaching even less attractive for the brightest and most creative young people, just who will go into teaching? It would be interesting to look at the stats for Teach for America – to see who does remain in education after the two years, who is still in it after five, and ask what it would have taken to keep them in it instead of heading to law school or consulting.</p>

<p>Those who argue that teaching is such a nice life style, low stress, short hours, tenure… Then WHY do so many people drop out of teaching within the first five years? Salary and lack of respect for the hard job they do are two reasons that come up over and over, along with the administrative/paperwork burden.</p>

<p>Tenure is a difficult issue, I agree. Historically, job security was a trade-off. You took lower paying civil service jobs, and you understood you would not lose them. But there is another issue, too, when it comes to teaching. If you saw the PBS special the other night on creationism in one school district, you saw how the science teachers united against the school district’s requirement that they read an anti-Darwin statement in their biology classes, and that they treat Intelligent Design as science. Would they have been able to make that stand if they did not have tenure? I wonder. I do think there needs to be some sort of tenure for this reason, but perhaps there are other combinations of incentives/disincentives to weed out poor teachers or help them improve.</p>

<p>BTW, I don’t know about New Jersey, but in the San Francisco Bay area a recent study found that $70,000 is the MINIMUM salary to raise a family with two children in a style that is barely middle class. That is, that’s the bare-bones budget for housing in a lower middle class neighborhood, transportation, food, childcare. No vacations, no frills.</p>

116

<p>I remember reading that both education and medicine had unaccounted for subsidies when the job market dictated that women were limited to being teachers and nurses. The brightest women were limited to certain fields now with the job market wide open the pay to get teachers and nurses must increase. I do love the free market.</p>

117

<p>In the NJ area involved the cost of living is over 50% higher than the national average. That means the $50K salary is more like $37 for an average community. The cost of living index does not tell the whole story. Housing is twice the national average and that really impacts those struggling to live in the area with a modest income. The $50K is probably more like $25-30K when compared with average cost of living areas.</p>

118

<p>Again, I think we have to ask ourselves what it would take to attract students from the top two thirds, and whether we are willing to pay it.
Some of the students on the other boards are expecting glamourous jobs with corner offices and consulting fees. Are taxpayers expected to match that? And what is exactly going on in the schools of education to make you think that teachers are the bottom third of the class?</p>

<p>I don’t think that is the issue.
That is way too simplistic.
When teachers make more per hour than the median wage, with in many places decent benefits /working conditions & hours- but we still have poor educational results for the masses, throwing more money at the same system without looking at what is actually the issue- is not going to effect improvement.</p>

<p>We don’t have enough engineers and those jobs are well paid I think many would agree.
[Bill</a> Gates addresses educational reform - UPI.com](<a href=“Top News, Latest headlines, Latest News, World News &amp; U.S News - UPI.com”>Top News, Latest headlines, Latest News, World News &amp; U.S News - UPI.com)</p>

<p>From what I have observed personally, the teachers who have more tenure ( and higher pay) are not necessarily more dynamic or professional than those teachers who are lower on the ladder. Ive seen teachers who are on their 2nd career, so they are lower on the ladder, ( and closer to retirement age) but more committed to teaching & take it seriously as a profession.
Ive also seen teachers switch districts, knowing that they will be at the bottom of the ladder again.
Same with private school teachers, switching to public ( partly for the benefits).
I think all teachers should be certified in the state- and it is up to the state to determine what that means.
But once they are, as long as they keep their license current, they are considered to be an active teacher- & their pay scale should reflect that whether they switch districts or temporarily stop out of teaching in the public schools.
( If I were king)</p>

119

<p>And if they kept their pay, no districts would hire them if they could help it. They would go with the new teachers who cost less.</p>

120

<p>I thought we had a teacher shortage…</p>

<p>If there was something in place so that districts were obligated to meet certain standards or else be taken over by another entity, they would need those experienced teachers.</p>

<p>If we don’t really care what kind of product we are turning out,or what kind of workers are going to be in the system for future employers,( and voters) then we can stay with our current system of shuffling people around to keep from having to do what needs to be done to get them out of the system, and those who can’t abide to work in that sort of environment actually leaving the system altogether.</p>