<p>We shared wine at dinner with our kids and these days as young adults, they could take it or leave it. They also prefer not to have a drink with their dinner if they have to drive afterward. Guess it depends on the kid and family dynamics. We aren’t big drinkers and never say things like, “What a day, I need a drink!”, haha. They also had been present at neighborhood parties where someone’s parent would overindulge… getting a first hand look at how embarrassing a normally respectable person can be when drunk. Also, during a party a few years back, one friend’s dad showed off his new sportscar to another friend’s mom and crashed the car, leaving the mom a quadraplegic. So, all in all, I’d like to think they understand that a drink/glass of wine can be a wonderful complement to a meal, but overindulging is stupid.</p>
<p>China,
I’d be interested in your addressing the research that I posted in post #4 about the impact of parents allowing kids to drink at home just like you have done.</p>
<p>Northstarmom - everything in that research may be totally true (although I find you can usually locate “studies” that will contradict whatever particular “study” being referenced.)</p>
<p>The main thing I would say: The statistics there are specifically about drinking BEFORE age 15. I would NEVER encourage my kids to drink at that young age. Even my son’s personal drinking escapade was not before 15; it was at 16. When we allowed him to drink in controlled situation he was a senior in h.s. - either 18 years old or very close to it. I’m not sure why anyone thought I might be advocating allowing a child to drink at a very young age. My original post is pretty specific about the ages/times of his life.</p>
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<p>Personally, I have never had the desire to encourage my children to drink at any age. The decision to use substances that alter brain chemistry and function is a decision best made by adults, in my opinion. The notion that teenagers should be allowed to have a couple of beers during a family barbeque because no barbeque is complete without alcohol just seems odd to me.</p>
<p>I grew up around alcohol. Three of my grandparents died at any early age because of excess use of the stuff. I grew up at a bar, literally–my mother owned and operated a blue-collar bar and I lived in the apartment upstairs and worked there from the time I was 15, as did my siblings. I’m not a teetotaler, but I’m close to it as a result of close observation of how stupidly people act when they have consumed even a moderate amount of alcohol. Alcohol is not some mysterious, attractive rite of passage into adulthood. It has the potential to wreck one’s life and health, and I’ve been careful not to give my children the idea that booze is some wondrous substance that must be a part of their social lives.</p>
<p>Someone above repeated the age-old nonsense that parents who claim their teenagers don’t drink are fooling themselves. I can state with certainty that my highschoolers did not, and do not, drink. Dead certain, thank you.</p>
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<p>As an alcoholic in recovery, in parenting I was very direct and detailed in the dark side of alcohol and what it does to the body and spirit if abused. As a lawyer, I was able to detail what I had seen happen to people who drank and to the intended and unintended victims of their drinking.</p>
<p>I made sure to point out the incidents when we were exposed to drunken behavior. At least to my knowledge, my S did not drink before college. I provided him the statistics on the age of first consumption of alcohol (etc) and pointed out that alcohol dependancy was reported by a very small fraction when the age of first consumption was 21 or over.</p>
<p>S turned 21 last month. I will be interested to see if he drinks.</p>
<p>“Someone above repeated the age-old nonsense that parents who claim their teenagers don’t drink are fooling themselves. I can state with certainty that my highschoolers did not, and do not, drink. Dead certain, thank you.”</p>
<p>That’s wonderful and I definitely would not doubt you. However, I can “state with certainty” that I personally know people who would make that same bold claim, and I know for a fact that they are wrong. (I’m not saying that is the case with you and your child; I’m just saying…)</p>
<p>Also, I truly NEVER say NEVER and NEVER state that anything is definitively true unless it is about my own past behavior and I really know it for a fact. I don’t like to even comment on future behavior - 'cause you never know!</p>
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<p>midmo, I don’t appreciate you totally twisting what I said. If that is what you deduced from my previous post, then perhaps you need to reread it.</p>
<p>In teaching our kids about alcohol, I think it’s important to remember that both of the following are true:
- Alcohol is a mind-altering substance, and overuse can destroy lives.
- Alcohol use is a highly common social activity in our culture, and is accepted as normal and moral behavior by millions of people.</p>
<p>alwaysamom - I think that’s what is bothering me a little with some of the posts. It’s like the folks who disagree just want to make it seem inherently evil or bad or immoral. I don’t feel that I suggested anything irresponsible in any of my posts, but people are “twisting” it to make it sound as though I’m buying my kid kegs of beer to drink with his friends on school nights and encouraging him to drink when he has absolutely no desire! Oh yea - and then I usually give him the car keys so he can do a little drunk driving and I offer up my bedroom so he can entertain a female friend. </p>
<p>We too modeled responsible behavior and no one in our house is setting a bad example. There are actually times when consuming alcohol is appropriate and acceptable (unless they’ve brought back prohibition and didn’t tell me.) We constantly had open discussions about all sorts of issues.</p>
<p>And that’s wonderful to all the people who have kids who had no desire to and never drank in h.s. If that’s what mine chose, it would have been absolutely fine with me. That’s not the case however, and because we have a close and open relationship, they always felt comfortable talking to me about what goes on in their lives.</p>
<p>Personally, I felt your post was thoughtful and rational. I actually thought you said what I was thinking/had done better than I did. My approach was very similar to both yours and MichaelNKat’s.</p>
<p>Anecdotally, in cultures where alcohol is consumed as part of a “normal and routine life”, for example in much of western Europe where wine is served with most meals, young college going adults tend to binge drink less.</p>
<p>As a parent of a high schooler, I have struggled with the notion of introducing my kid to wine, beer, or a mixed drink, but so far have refrained. My gut tells me that at some point I want my kid to first experience these in moderation at home and under supervision, rather than in the company of college compatriots with no supervision, and possibly in excess.</p>
<p>China, you do sound a little oversensitive. My post wasn’t meant as a commentary on you or your family. I just thought it was interesting this question was being asked hours after getting off the phone with someone who posed the exact same question to me because she’s seeing negative consequences of giving underage kids alcohol. That’s all.</p>
<p>I think maybe this is an issue on which we have one extreme, a moderate view, and an unrepresented other extreme. I think some people feel (like my mother, for example), that drinking is intrinsically bad because of its danger, based on their own life experiences. There are gradations of a moderate view, in which it’s a social activity, not bad in itself, and maybe it would be a good idea for kids to learn to drink in moderation in a controlled environment. Both of those views are typically represented in discussions here (with shades of both). But we don’t often get posts from people who think it’s OK for teens to drink as much as they want, who host the teen drinking party, etc. Those folks are out there–they’re just not here.</p>
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<p>China, this is your original post.</p>
<p>A number of parents have weighed in with the opinion that they don’t think it is a good idea. Some don’t like the illegality, some give credence to research that points out that brains are still developing into late teen years (not just younger than 15, by the way), some don’t like encouraging the idea that alcohol is a necessary component of a pleasant social event, etc.</p>
<p>None of those arguments are claiming that the position of parents who disagree is immoral or constitutes bad parenting. Personally, I think the position that introducing alcohol during teen years in a ‘controlled’ situation decreases the likelihood of alcohol abuse as adults is flawed, not backed up by any research, and is in direct contradiction to my observations throughout my life. </p>
<p>That is not a moral judgement. If you don’t want to know what others think of your approach, why did you ask us to comment?</p>
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<p>Says whom? I paid some attention to this line of argument when my daughter went to London last year. I read that quite a few European countries are reassessing their alcohol laws in light of increasing rates of alcoholism.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is any secret that Scandinavian countries have serious problems with alcohol abuse. Ditto Russia.</p>
<p>Direct comparisons of college life with other countries is very difficult, because most other countries, including western European ones, do not have nearly as high a rate of living on-campus. Students live at home and go to college nearby.</p>
<p>Just chiming in…</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I think 21 is not a proper “legal” drinking age when “adult” age 18 is common for all other aspects. Just never made common sense to me that one is responsible at 18 for marriage, armed services, etc but can’t be trusted with a beer.</p></li>
<li><p>I would prefer to have my child try alcohol in an environment I can control before sending off to college. </p></li>
<li><p>I full acknowledge #2 is only for my benefit to create a false sense of security. If forced to be honest with myself I don’t think it would stop a child from binge drinking. Binge drinking has been occuring on college campuses since my day. It doesn’t matter the caliber of the school or the age of the student (under or over 21). Our cultural has portrayed it as a right of passage.</p></li>
<li><p>I will never believe my lines of communication with my child are so good that they would confide all non-academic aspects of college (drinking or the other “rite of passage” – sex) with me. I HOPE my kids will, but I don’t fully believe it. I’m either a realist or a pessimist.</p></li>
<li><p>You can bet I’ll be nudging my kids toward the schools that offer numerous non-alcoholic social activities attended in mass. </p></li>
<li><p>This post has me thinking of doing college tours on Saturday nights just to gleam the “whole” college cultural.</p></li>
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<p>“If you don’t want to know what others think of your approach, why did you ask us to comment?”</p>
<p>Here’s really the only things that are bothering me:</p>
<p>The continual use of the word “illegal.” Read my post #6. No one has acknowledged that what I did was absolutely NOT illegal.</p>
<p>Comments such as:</p>
<p>“The notion that teenagers should be allowed to have a couple of beers during a family barbeque because no barbeque is complete without alcohol just seems odd to me.” (No one said nor implied this…it’s the way it was interpreted by the reader.)</p>
<p>“Personally, I have never had the desire to encourage my children to drink at any age.” (I hope I didn’t use the word “encourage.” That’s not what I did. It’s sort of like putting words in my mouth. If I did use the word, that was my mistake.)</p>
<p>“In our family, you don’t get to spend the day on the couch when you make a bad decision.” (Sorry, that one just sounded “preachy” to me and rubbed me the wrong way.)</p>
<p>So, sorry if I seem sensitive. I do like hearing other’s opinions. I just felt that some of the opinions were a little critical. I have nothing negative to say to people who handle it differently - except that they should be a little more open-minded. How many times could I write that “each child/family is different.?” I think what’s missing are the people disagreeing with me are NOT saying that part. I understand that it might not be right for them, but they should acknowledge that it might, in fact, be right for others.</p>
<p>china, I think you, unfortunately, had to stand in for the horrible parents who encourage their kids to drink, throw parties where they supply alcohol to other people’s kids, and who drink themselves into a stupor each night. Since they don’t post here (probably becuase they’re too blotto to see the screen), criticism that is justly aimed at them sort of landed on you.</p>
<p>Hunt, I think there is another large group of parents you haven’t accounted for who we also rarely if ever see on CC. That’s the parents who say “Kids will be kids,” of course they are going to drink, but they aren’t going to do it in my house. These are the parents who enable their kids by buying them cars and setting few limits on their use, allowing their kids to go out without curfews or any clear idea where they are going. These are parents who would rather not be unpopular or who don’t want to impose rules that might put a crimp in their child’s social status in high school. Our community is full of parents such as this despite the fact that barely a year goes by that at least one kid isn’t badly injured or worse after consumming alcohol at the home of one of their classmates with “cool parents.”</p>
<p>Hunt - Thank you. What you said makes a lot of sense. I agree with both you and hudsonvalley51 about these other types of parents. I definitely know some of them. Actually, my kids like to joke with me and will sometimes tell me I’m such a great “friend” to them because they know one of my personal pet peeves are the parents who want so badly to be their kids’ friend that they forget to be a parent! There’s never been a doubt in our house who are the parents. We’ve made plenty of unpopular decisions - including never allowing our kids go to unsupervised parties (yes I checked) and not letting them sleep out of the house (as I mentioned in the original post.) Again, Hunt, I think what you said might explain why I’m feeling a little defensive. I think I am being sort of lumped in with the type of parents I personally don’t want to be like - and really never have been.</p>
<p>We have always let our kids know that we expect them to obey the law. The drinking age is 21, so no drinking until you are 21. The drinking age changed from 18-21 when I was in college, and I think it was a good thing. I totally agree with the law. </p>
<p>I think that a lot of parents remember the days when they were in college, when the drinking age was 18, and just expect their kids to drink freshman year. They disagree with the law, and send mixed messages to their kids. IMO this is a huge part of the underage drinking problem. Even though it is not against the law to serve kids alcohol in your own home, if a kid gets used to drinking at 16-18 at home and sees having a couple drinks as part of social occasions–and then he/she goes off to college and drinks at parties, guess what? Even if the kid is drinking in moderation and not driving or getting out of control–
He/she is breaking the law. (The parents didn’t, but they set the kid up to think it is OK/normal/expected/fun to drink alcohol at 18). If kid gets busted for underage drinking, what will he/she say? “My mom/dad said it is a dumb law. . .” Good luck with that.</p>