Team Captains

Parents Forum
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<p>I do not feel that I will be “giving” my D options. As a rising senior, she certainly will make her own decision to stay or go. I do think you are giving the coach too much credit for his decision making process. I honestly think that time on the team is most of what went into his thinking. Any of the other 4 seniors would be a good choice for captains and/or co-captains, and I think all of them would happily play on a team for each other without any concerns. It is possible that the coach thought this kid “needs” the experience of being captain. But I don’t think he thought through how it would feel to the other seniors – he only saw it as “good experience for X, and X has been here the longest”. The other seniors are willing to play WITH this kid – they do not begrudge him the right to be on the team as a competitor, although they find his behavior annoying. But they do not want to play FOR him.</p>

<p>Because this is a small team academic competition, there is no getting away from a person in power with bad judgement and an abrasive personality. It isn’t like baseball where the person is way across the field most of the time, you have a coach who is calling the shots during a game, and you have 20 teammates (and likely some co-captains) to cushion interaction with that person.</p>

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<p>Time on the team may have been how he decided. The coach thought that was the best way to decide. No one is saying the coach is correct, What I am saying is this coach like most people make decisions they feel are correct. They use whatever reasoning they use. If your D quits I believe most people in the situation of the coach would see that action as validating the decision.</p>

23

<p>People quit teams all the time because they do not like or respect the coach or some of their teammates. I disagree that doing so “validates” anything with respect to the player. The player may or may not be the one with the problem and is just as likely to be smart to leave rather than stay in a toxic situation.</p>

<p>The problem in OP’s D’s situation is that she is so good at what she does and enjoys it. I would be a shame to throw it away because of the bad coach and annoying captain. My suggestion would be to for her to give it a shot and see how it feels after a couple of months. There is a possibility that the captain will leave her alone, given her status. Also, kids can grow up so much their senior years and become immune to interpersonal issues that used to drive them crazy.</p>

24

<p>Has the thought crossed your mind that the coach just might not like your DD and that is why she wasn’t given the captain position? Also, as a long time coach, parents rarely see things the same way as the coach and being both a coach and a parent, usually the parent is the one that is wrong. The parent’s idea of who is best almost always is incorrect. It’s hard to be objective when it comes to our own children. It isn’t always the person that scores the most points that is the “best” on the team and people often forget that. There is a lot that goes into any team sport or activity outside of “points”.</p>

<p>Personally, I think your DD is making a mistake emailing the coach about her displeasure and making even more of a grave mistake to have other kids do the same. If she wants more information she should TALK to the coach, in person, not over the phone, not through email about why she wasn’t chosen, period. Leave the captain out of the conversation completely. If she goes in whining about how she should be captain and not him, it just sounds like sour grapes.</p>

25

<p>I said the coach would see it as validating his decision.</p>

26

<p>I think the coach does like my D. And as I have said, my D and her teammates would have no concerns about any other senior being named captain or co-captains. This really isn’t about my D wanting to be captain personally, it is more about making sure that the team has a captain (or captains) who can help the team progress, not embarrass the team and damage the team’s quality and morale. I think she would like to be captain, but if one of the other seniors besides this kid was named, she would be okay with that.</p>

<p>Most of the other seniors are as upset as she is about this (she is not rabble rousing with them, but they also heard through the grapevine about this because of the approach the coach took in communicating this – and they are also planning to communicate with the coach). I feel like those who think the coach is going to be upset think this coach is a macho guy who will feel threatened by this challenge to his decision making approach. He is not… and their school is a small private, tends to be pretty collaborative in decision making. Regarding meeting with him, I think D felt that she could be more sure that she made all of the points she wanted to effectively if she did it in writing, then can follow that up with a meeting. I don’t disagree with this approach.</p>

<p>I agree that the player who scores the most points on a team is not always the most valuable. But in this particular activity, the kids tend to have areas of academic specialty. This kid is not the best on the team in his area (D’s specialty is something else). He just hasn’t worked very hard outside of practice to become a top performer in the area he is supposed to be supporting for the team. One of the other seniors is better at that specialty area. This year D made an extra effort to identify a couple of academic areas where the team had weaknesses and work outside of practice to become better at those so the team would not have a gap in those areas. This kid isn’t even working hard on the area where he is assigned, let alone analyzing gaps in the team’s capabilities and working to fill them. I believe I have covered the fact above that while there are definitely skills outside of scoring points that are qualities a good captain needs, this kid does not have those soft skills or leadership skills.</p>

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<p>Re#25^Maybe so, for this coach. But what he should really do is question what he did wrong to make his best (or one of) team members quit.</p>

28

<p>This year there were two captains, but just one next year? </p>

<p>Is this dd your shy one? If so, perhaps this trait influenced the coach to not choose her as captain?</p>

29

<p>Seems like whenever anyone implies that the coach is anything but absolutely wrong…and your daughter is anything but absolutely right you aren’t open to even the suggestion…so what is it that you’re looking for here?</p>

30

<p>She is pretty shy in many situations, but this is actually the one environment (this activity) where she is not particularly shy. Regarding the 2 captains vs. 1, it is confusing. There were 2 last year. Maybe he means to name another one later? Which is why D may get some benefit out of discussing her qualifications with the coach. Not sure how she will co-captain with this boy if she ends up in that position, though. That is something she will need to think about.</p>

<p>JoBenny, I started this post wondering if other parents have seen this situation and what has happened on their kids teams when something like this has occurred (when a captain has been appointed, especially on a team where the captain has a lot of power), and the other students have been unhappy with the choice. I actually watch these kids in competition a lot, and have a pretty good feeling for what is needed and how the various kids play/interact. My kid definitely has some things she would need to work were she to be a captain, and she is quite aware of those things. One of her friends actually might be a stronger choice if the coach is going to just name a captain. </p>

<p>And… I do believe the coach is wrong. He could not have made a worse choice among his five available seniors (or even his juniors). I just hate to see him flush away all the hard work this team has done by putting a kid that is kind of a slacker and a jerk in charge of the team.</p>

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<p>Coaches are just people and they make mistakes. I also think, over time involved, they lose sight of how important it can be to the kids who the captain is. I think, at times, they just see it as something some kids are and a pain, to some extent.</p>

<p>I have no reason to believe your daughter would not be a deserving captain, that this kid is useless in this role, or that the coach made a mistake. I am guessing, based on your posts, that the coach, since he isn’t always there, does lean very heavily on the recommendation of the current captains when making his decision. It makes sense.</p>

<p>There is no reason your daughter should not make her case, but there is no reason to believe, either, that the coach is going to “walk this back,” either. Also, I wonder if your daughter has considered the possibility that the coach will not make her the sole captain, but, since it is difficult to “take this away” without actual evidence of failure from the other kid, that she might be made to co-captain with this boy she cannot stand. This is a real possibility, and it would be extremely poor sportsmanship to quit if she is made the co-captain, even with someone she abhors. (Just sometimes we forget that we get what we want but not exactly the way that we want it.)</p>

<p>Good luck. I don’t think we should teach kids to put up with bad treatment or to stay in a miserable situation, but I also don’t think we should teach them to walk away the minute they don’t get acknowledged for their ability. Certainly, politics is messy, and it sometimes puts us in a situation where we can’t stay.</p>

<p>Good luck to you and your daughter. I can understand her sadness at seeing her favorite EC potentially being uncomfortable for her senior year, but I dont’ know many coaches who will unname a named captain, even if they did make a mistake.</p>

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<p>In my limited experience, coaches have the power to run their teams in any way they see fit, within the constraints of state and school rules. Assuming no physical harm/ hazing/ illegal activities are occurring there are no guarantees of playing time, cuts, being benched, team discipline, who is starting, or who is a team captain. Those decisions are totally at the coach’s discression, and making too big an issue out of something like selection of captains can blow up in a parent’s or player’s face. </p>

<p>It is also my experience that every player is replaceable, and that making a statement by quitting a team has little or no impact on the rest of the team or the coach.</p>

33

<p>Is it possible the coach is trying to make this kid, the new captain, quit the team? Maybe the coach knows the slacker captain won’t or can’t do the responsibilities and will eventually quit so he doesn’t have to do them?</p>

34

<p>My kids are only involved in one sport at school so my experience is limited. That being said, I love the way this coach approached appointing team captains. The kids have to apply. It doesn’t matter whether they are freshman or seniors (we don’t have JV so we have kids that have been on the team since 6th grade). They have to fill out an application and then interview with the coach. We are talking a real interview where they have to wear business attire. This year we had a men’s team captain and co-captains for the ladies. All were juniors. It was a great year.</p>

<p>I understand your dd’s disappointment and the coach didn’t exactly chose the captain in a fair way. This is one of those times where I think you acknowledge the disappointment and help your dd figure out what her options might be. Complain, quit, or do something that will actually help the team in years to come. Like design a advisory board that consists of more than a captain making all the decisions. There are lots of ways to get something positive out or a crappy situation. Going into the next year believing that it will suck is probably insuring that it will. He may end up being captain in name only since he is a slacker. Somebody will have to step up to the plate. That somebody can be your dd. A real leader is one that EVERYONE acknowledges and looks to, not necessarily the one with the title.</p>

35

<p>Since this is CC I thought I’d just ask, is the coach a person your daughter would ask to write her recommendation letters? What if the question of her quitting came up during an interview, how would she answer?<br>
Also, just IMHO writing emails is a dangerous way to communicate–they’re not private, can be changed, forwarded etc. Lets just say I’ve had experience in that area :-)<br>
Good luck! I hope your daughter finds a way to resolve this so she won’t have to quit something she enjoys.</p>

36

<p>Your D could going with a few other team members and telling the boy to resign, because if he is captain it will be without them.</p>

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<p>Yeah, not always. My daughter is actually not replacable, but she is the type who is both elected by the students AND made captain by the coach, even in her sophmore year. </p>

<p>However, she did, at one time, have a bad coach. it wasn’t something about wanting to be captain. She’s been captain of her teams since she was like 9, and doesn’t really even care about that, and was captain when she had the bad coach.</p>

<p>She chose to go in a different direction with a different team that had been recruiting her, at the time. Coaches make mistakes, get ideas in their heads, and are only human. </p>

<p>Do I want to say it’s petty to quit over not being captain, of course I do. But that’s just silly. Everyone has their own threshhold, and everyone’s threshold is as valid as anybody else’s. Kids need to be taught how to make a commitment to a team, but they also, importantly, need to be taught how to make a commitment to themselves. JMO</p>

<p>ETA: Basil1 is right about emails. She should not put anything in writing she would not be willing to say to the entire team face-to-face, without embarrassment.</p>

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<p>In my kids’ school, team captains were voted by members at the end of the junior year. The captains did really have the respect and confidence of the team members. In the case of the OP’s D, is there a lot of competition to be captain among team members? May be the teacher wanted to avoid further meltdown of the team and decided the team captain by himself?</p>

39

<p>Poetgirl, you just articulated exactly what I have been mulling over. “Kids need to be taught how to make a commitment to a team, but they also, importantly, need to be taught how to make a commitment to themselves.” Just trying to figure out how to help D navigate that in this situation.</p>

<p>Someone mentioned upthread that it could be really tough for her to co-captain with this boy. It would be tough… but not as tough as playing under him. Another thought is that their school usually fields 2-3 teams per competition. The coach might consider making her (or another senior) captain of the 2nd team… then allowing most of the other seniors to play on her team, while the “top team” has more of a rebuilding year with juniors and sophs. The letter in the team name (A, B, etc.) doesn’t matter at all if you are sitting on top of the standings. The 2nd captain would still have to navigate LOTS of coaches practices with him, though. But I was thinking that maybe if they really clearly delineated responsibilities and even took turns at them (staying out of each other’s way when it was the other one’s turn), maybe they could make that work.</p>

<p>I saw her email, and it is very appropriate. She does NOT slam the other kid, although does state at the beginning that she was upset to hear via rumors from the team that he has been named captain (this will not be a surprise to the coach, I am sure). She just goes on to say that she had hoped to be considered for a captain’s position (leaving open the option that he might appoint 2), and talks about what she has done for the team this year. Then talks about what she knows she would need to work on, that she would be open to feedback from him to try to be the best captain she could for the team, and lists a few ideas she has for strengthening the team’s performance and morale for next year. It is a pretty high road email, considering the situation. Now one could read between the lines, as she emphasizes her qualities that this kid does not exhibit. But the coach can choose to notice that or not. At the end she suggests that an election for captains might be a better way to handle this, and each candidate could speak to the team ahead of time about their qualifications and vision for the team (this email would be an excellent basis for this). </p>

<p>Sorghum, this kid is pretty oblivious… I think he would just go on and captain a team of sophomores. Self awareness is not a strong suit.</p>

40

<p>Oh, someone asked about the recommendation letters. Typically kids at our school get their recommendations from teachers, not coaches/etc. Although he did attend one school on her list that does accept additional letters, so she had considered having him write a letter for that one school. But it is not a make or break thing that she needs to have him do this. I actually think he might have more respect for her if she asks appropriately for him to review his decision and consider her. </p>

<p>You know how people can sort of not notice how someone in their employee group has grown in skills (and in fact sometimes you have to leave to get more responsibility or recognition)? I think teachers/coaches can be the same… sometimes if a student lists their accomplishments and qualifications (not just “points”, but soft skills things like recruiting and working to fill gaps in the team), it can open the teacher/coach’s eyes to things they haven’t been paying attention to. The coach HAS been distracted this year by some things at his work, and also a lower level team that has done really well this year and required extra coaching time from him. He actually may not have noticed some of the things she has done for the team this year. I think girls in particular are notoriously bad at tooting their own horns about accomplishments, and there is nothing wrong with her at least asking politely for the coach to consider her request.</p>